+1 (312) 520-0301 Give us a five star review on iTunes!
Send Buck a voice message!

127: Tom Wheelwright and Tax Free Wealth 2.0

Share on social networks: Share on Facebook
Tweet about this on Twitter
Share on LinkedIn

Buck: Welcome back everyone. Today my guest on Wealth Formula Podcast needs really no introduction. He’s been on the show a couple times. He is a very, very well known figure in the tax space. He’s the guy that Robert Kiyosaki told me was the smartest tax guy he’s ever met. And his name is Tom Wheelwright. And Tom is of course CPA best-selling author of Tax-Free Wealth which was recently released as the second edition after the new Trump tax code screwed up all of his first book. He’s also a gifted entrepreneur and wealth advisor who’s teaches on tax issues internationally and now he’s also the host of something we’re gonna talk about a little bit later which is Wealth Ability which has been a huge hit and I know for a fact that many of you who already listen to it already so Tom welcome back!

Tom: Hey thanks but good to be here!

Buck: Good to have you. So since the last time we talked of course we actually talked after the the whole Trump tax code was changed but it was just brand new, right? And I can’t imagine that you had really had a chance to really, really absorb it. Did you really have to rewrite that book from scratch or was it a lot of it pretty much…

Tom: You know here’s the great thing about taxes is that from a conceptual standpoint, they’re the same all over the world, so it’s not just in the US but all over. What, you know the tax laws we talked about before is just a series of incentives right and and the question is who are the incentives for right and how much are the incentives for those people. And it’s long been a series of incentives for entrepreneurs and investors, but I’ll tell you what, there were some pretty big winners from an entrepreneur and investor standpoint and there are actually some pretty big losers in this new tax bill. And so we did have to modify, we did have to modify some things in Tax-Free Wealth and we actually added in a free ebook. So you know when you when you get Tax-Free Wealth second edition now there’s a free ebook to talk about the top ten tax benefits from the Trump tax bill.

Buck: Really? I didn’t see that. I just got mine like two days ago, because I need it. I needed to get the e-book. But anyway I’ll look for that. So you mentioned some big winners and losers. Was it just a usual thing where the W2’s just got a hammered or were there specific groups within the entrepreneurial world that actually didn’t fare well as well either?

Tom: Well really the employees got hammered, more than ever. I mean you know the last time we had major tax reform was 1986. I was back in Washington with Ernst young back then. And the employees actually did really well, they ended up with much lower tax brackets, they did really, really well. Real estate got hammered in 1986. That’s when we got the passive loss rules right? And we didn’t even get the real estate professional rules until six seven years later. Ao there was a long period of time when real estate was just really under fire from the tax law so given who our president it is won’t surprise anybody to know that the big, big winners were real estate investors. And I mean seriously amazingly big winners. You know I mean obviously big corporations were big winners, you know they they got a tax rate reduced from thirty five to twenty one percent. The nice thing is anybody can take advantage of that twenty one percent tax rate so people who are not as big they’re still gonna get those. There were some great, actually more benefits for small business than we usually get. And so I would say you know as the corporation’s real estate investors and small business who really you know came out smelling nicely out of this. And it was employees employees lost some really big deductions and they lost them permanently. You know this tax law actually some of the a lot of the provisions are temporary, like the tax rate reduction is temporary for individuals. The tax rate reduction for corporations is permanent. The tax benefit for small businesses is temporary. Some of the deductions that they eliminated for employees, permanent. So it’s a pretty interesting long and you’re right I mean since since we last spoke there have been regulations issued we have a lot more information about what’s available.

Buck: So can you talk a little bit, there’s some confusion I’ve had even within discussions of our own little mastermind here about the whole, what was at 21 or 22 percent in the the taxation for the LLC, the deduction basically?

Tom: Oh the 20% deduction?

Buck: Yeah can you talk a little bit how that works? And I guess there’s also some particular services that don’t get that opportunity.

Tom: Yes that is of everything in that law, that 20% what they call the pass-through deduction it’s the most complex part of the entire law and it is, I mean they issued regulations that are 89 pages and they don’t solve a lot of the problems. So here’s basically, the idea behind it is that corporations got a tax reduction from 35% to 21%. So they’re going okay if big companies are gonna get a big tax reduction, we want small business entrepreneurs to get a maybe not as big a tax reduction but some tax reduction as well. So the way they did it was they said look anybody who owns a pass-through entity, which includes partnerships sole proprietorships S corporations all of those are pass-through entities whether they’re formed as an LLC or otherwise they’re still S corporations, partnerships and sole proprietorships for tax purposes. So the net income from the business the idea is the net income from the business only 80% of it is taxed, okay. It’s actually very simple there’s a similar provision in oil and gas where only 85 percent of oil and gas income is taxed, okay? So it’s a similar type of provision the difference is is that it’s really complicated. So for example there’s a group of service industries that includes you and me pal, okay? It includes the doctors and the accountants and the lawyers and the consultants in that in the stockbrokers it includes the athletes it includes the independent contractors, all of these people okay don’t get the deduction if their income is over a certain threshold, okay? If their incomes above the threshold so for an ended for a single person that threshold is a hundred fifty seven thousand five hundred and for married filing joint that threshold’s three hundred fifteen thousand. So if you’re under that threshold all of those businesses qualify. If you’re under that threshold and that’s that’s a key point because one of the planning some of the planning that we’re doing is to actually reduce our reduce income down below that $315,000 level so we get that additional 20% deduction which is three hundred fifteen thousand is another sixty three thousand dollars. So that’s that that’s a big part of it, but if you’re over that than those what they call SSTB’s okay, Special Service Trade or Businesses, right? So those businesses like doctors lawyers and accountants don’t get that 20% deduction so there are some huge tax benefit, I mean think there are there are flow-through entities. As I understand Cargill the big food processing company agricultural company out of Minnesota, they’re a partnership. They’ll get the 20% deduction, okay on billions of dollars of income, so huge tax benefit for somebody like Cargill okay? But on the other end and and real estate investors also get it if they have net income, which of course you and I know that if you have enough leverage then you’re not going to have that taxable income especially with the new bonus depreciation rules. But let’s say you do have taxable income real estate investors do get it now you know there’s limitations that are so complex you know we really can’t get it in it here but it’s available okay? So it’s something that yep you sit down with your tax advisor and walk through that and let them walk through the details with you.

Buck: So it sounds like the the industries without lobbyists kind of didn’t do well.

Tom: Oh so it gets better but right right? So the lobbyists for the account the accounting industry the legal industry and the and the medical services industries I hope they all got canned, okay? Now the lobbyists for engineering and architects should got a huge bonus, because they were accepted out of this rule. So even though their professional services they got good lobbying and and they get the deduction.

Buck: So crazy. So you talk about all this complexity, right? And the complexity, and I’ve heard you say this before, but maybe there’s a good time to kind of reiterate this that ultimately that the complexity of the tax code is also what can help you get rich, right? I mean what do you what do you mean by that I mean in the context of all these things were talking about right now?

Tom: Well so on the one hand it’s pretty simple in the basic concepts, right? These are incentives, and that’s what they are and they’re legal, you know, and and there are certain industries right small business here with the 20%, real estate with the bonus depreciation, big companies 21%, and there you know there are some some other obviously lots of other incentives in there. So conceptually they’re pretty simple, but here’s what’s great is you look at the complexity of for example the 20% deduction and you go okay maybe there’s something I can do about this because of the complexity, now what I have is I have some rules and some things there aren’t rules for that I go okay so what do I have to change in order to get the benefit? It’s not a matter of do I get the benefit or not, that’s that’s a poor man’s way of thinking it’s a question of how do I get the benefit? And let me tell you there are there’s always ways to get the benefit.

Buck: Yeah, and why is it you know when we talk about, how does the government determine who gets these benefits, beyond lobbying in reality I mean they’re obviously lobbying is a big part of it in this situation, but but give us some examples because I know like you know, one of the things that a big takeaway that I’ve had listening to you and reading your book you know and I’ve said this before is it’s by far the the best tax book I’ve ever read. I’ve read it multiple times, it’s actually entertaining and it’s interesting which I it’s hard to imagine a tax book can be that but it is. But one of the takeaways that I’ve always that I really got from you was that taxes are not necessarily some you should look at as punitive. They’re not the government trying to come at you, it’s the government trying to advance its agenda, like telling you know to have you invest in the things that that it wants you to invest in etc. So how does a government make those kinds of decisions?

Tom: Well you know every every government has its own policies and direction that it wants for its economy, for social engineering, for environment, you know and in all of those policies, what the government’s learned a long time ago 60-70 years ago is that they actually realized that people hate paying taxes. Shocking, right? So a small tax incentive actually goes a long ways. I remember I had a client when I was first starting out 30 some odd years ago, that he literally to him a dollar saved in taxes was worth two dollars earned any other way, because he hated paying taxes yes so he would love the incentives he’s long since passed away but he would have loved all of these incentives so for example let me give you a really simple one oil and gas okay so there’s long been oil and gas incentives so historically if you invested $100,000 or when make it even simpler ,10,000 dollars in an oil and gas drilling project you would get a deduction immediately of $8,000. Well what they did with this last tax act in 2017 instead of getting $8,000 deduction now you get a $10,000 deduction. So what they’re saying is look, we want to put, we actually want to even more encourage oil and gas drilling, we want to and I think that was a little bit of a rescue of that industry, which really was hammered hard yeah a few years ago when when the oil prices just tanked, you know got down around 35-40 dollars a barrel. And so you know that’s energy. Energy is always a big policy because that’s there’s a lot of security for national security, that’s a national security issue, as well as an economic issue. And of course with current administration I mean look, you know a lot of Natural Resources coal oil a lot of those people back this current administration and so there’s a bit of a reward there. Real estate real estate has long had tax advantages ever since Reagan. Reagan starting 1981 Reagan and Congress in nineteen eighty-one enacted major tax benefits by accelerating or speeding up the depreciation. So that was just Reagan saying look we want to stimulate the economy. Interesting enough, you know when we were already, the economy’s doing pretty well and then what this legislation did was supercharge it. Apparently we had, oh I was just reading we had a four point two percent growth rate in the second quarter. I mean that’s astounding, that kind of a growth rate in the economy four point two percent. So that’s, you know they’re looking at how do we stimulate the economy. I think the big one for this this time though was the corporate tax reduction I think really everything else that was done revolved largely around that. And the reason is because the US has long been at a disadvantage competitive disadvantage vis a vis the rest the world because most of the rest of the world has tax rates for corporations under thirty percent. And so what this law was doing was the government was saying look, we want to be more competitive in our exports. We all well know we’ve got huge trade imbalances so we import a lot and now we want to be more competitive with our exports. And remember we also don’t have a value-added tax, so when we export to a country like France with a 21 percent value-added tax not only do we pay income tax but we’re also we’re you know at our rates but we’re also paying this value-added tax when they export to our country that value-added tax goes away because exports aren’t subject to value-added tax. So there’s a huge competitive disadvantage that I believe that was the real driver behind this tax law what was to make the US more competitive. Now I think what it’s done is it’s had two interesting effects one is it’s made the us some something of a tax haven okay. Twenty-one percent is now lower than almost every other country. So now you actually have you actually have companies that are going we never want it to really be in the United States, now there’s a reason to be here besides the obvious economics of being here, now it makes a huge amount of sense to be here from a tax standpoint, okay? And so that was I think that was you know that tax shelter is that whole idea of the US being the tax haven, but the second thing that’s happened is other countries are now looking at reducing their corporate tax rates, so it’s having an impact worldwide for the US to take that that position that we’re gonna have really low corporate income taxes.

Buck: It’s interesting I mean it’s a topic for another show, but of course the counter of it is that debt probably it’s gonna go up globally as well and answer to the long-term implications, but you know one of the things I was curious about that because it makes a lot of sense to me when you talk about effectively like larger corporations for example, repatriating a lot of you know their business and their income and stuff, but weren’t a lot of these companies already you know using the tax code to their advantage to really zero out? I mean I always you know hearing Jim Rickards, I’ve had Jim on the show and he’s you know work for all these banks and large companies and talks about ultimately they’ll figure out how to weight a zero their taxes anyway. Weren’t those companies already there? I mean tell me how it has really made a difference for these big companies?

Tom: Well you know you can look at it two different ways. You can look at it these as the US companies and you can look at the look at it these are the companies outside of the US, okay? So there has been a lot of money repatriated. I mean already. There’s all there’s been like hundreds of billions of dollars have already been repatriated, because what they used in the tax law was they used a provision that allowed them to if they kept the money offshore they didn’t have to pay the tax until they brought it on shore. But when they brought it an onshore they were gonna have to pay 35%. Well now we’ve got this repatriation tax which is even lower than the regular corporate rate and so now you’re seen as well. You know we’d like to have the money onshore, we’d like to be able to use it in the US, but we’ve never had. It’s always been so penurious, I’ve used you know that word, there’s always been really a penalty to bring that back onshore and so now the penalty is not there anymore. So they’re going well why’d leave it offshore, we can bring it on shore and and they’re doing things with it like buying corporate stock which raises the stock prices which everybody says well that’s such a big benefit to the corporations. Well, but corporations aren’t people okay. Corporations are owned by people and mostly by people in their 401k and pension plans. And so the people who are invested in the stock market which is middle America, okay, have had huge benefits you’ve seen the stock market rise in the last in the last eight months. I mean the stock market really took I mean it took off you know with the new administration but then took off even more with the new tax law and what you’re seeing is you’re seeing this kind of infusion of capital into the US stock market and it’s clearly having an effect, right? But then you also have to look at the other companies from the rest of the world. And they’ve, so many of them have gone, well look we could build in the US but boy the tax benefits you know it’s it’s expensive because once they build in the US they’re subject to US tax laws, okay? So we’d have to pay thirty five percent in the US whereas if we ship from offshore we don’t we may not have any US tax consequence because we don’t have enough of a connection to be subject to US tax. So it’s it’s very possible that those companies that were not investing in the US now they’re looking at coming into the US. And I actually think that’s a probably a bigger in on the economy. And then you know it’s kind of interesting to see that, again topic for another show, but it’s interesting that combined with the new tariffs and to say okay what’s gonna happen there, you know originally there was supposed to be a border tax, which is kind of a way to do a value-added tax without actually calling it a value-added tax, and that went nowhere. That went nowhere. But that’s I think that the whole idea behind the tariffs is to really do something without Congress, okay? Because Congress was never gonna pass that border tax and so instead you do a border tariff which has the same effect, you know, then the question is you know how do you pick and choose and whom. So we’ll see what happens with these trade wars.

Buck: Yes we shall. We live in interesting times. It is a good, you know was it the curse of the interesting times or something like that. Anyway so I want to talk, I want to shift a little bit and talk about what you’re doing these days which is really interesting I think people need to know about it which is Wealth Ability. So used to be the case, even say a year or two ago, but if you wanted a guy like Tom to help you with your taxes you’d have to have some serious money. Because Tom ain’t cheap, I’ll tell you. But Wealth Ability, you know part of the mission of Wealth Ability is to address that, right? And so tell us a little bit about Wealth Ability and ultimately how it is effectively started democratizing now what you know you what used to be pretty much just available to guys like Robert Kiyosaki.

Tom: Well it’s actually very exciting. It’s very, very exciting. Because so Wealth Ability, this is, and of course the name is exactly what it implies it’s where our job is to help you develop your ability to create wealth. So it’s your Wealth Ability, it’s not our Wealth Ability, it’s yours. And so what we’re doing is first thing we’re doing is we’re completely revamping all of our educational courses into brand-new technology and it is very cool. And I’m very excited, we’re gonna release this early next year and you will see some online training on tax, business and wealth strategies that will blow your mind. Absolutely amazing. Not just the content but actually the delivery, actually. You’ll be able to get some education that’s actually interesting, fun, easy to watch so we’re very excited about that. But that’s a very important part of what we do because what we find is, is that unless you’re educated financially, it’s very hard to make progress either on your taxes or on other aspects of your cash flow. So we have to have the education but the other thing that you mention is you know, if the challenge is when you’re doing complex advisory services you have to pay people a lot of money, that the advisors a lot of money, right? So typically we would hire out of the big four accounting firms. Well big four accounting firms aren’t cheap. So while we could do it at less than half the price, a big four that’s you’re right that still can be a chunk of change. So there are a lot of new investors, a lot of people who are just starting their strategy that really don’t need that level of advisor, okay? They need good advice. They don’t just quite need that level of advice and so what we are missing is we call them actually, we call that the forty-percenters. We actually have a term for it at Wealth Ability, the forty-percenters. This is 40% of the people that we’ve been talking to really weren’t ready for what we do with our CPA firms so what we did was, we’ve done two things already. So the first is is that we created a new service and it’s called my Tax-Free Wealth Roadmap Plus and it’s our education combined with monthly calls with a tax advisor. So it’s not a complete strategy, it’s kind of assisted do-it-yourself. So it’s it’s really perfect for the 40%. Perfect for somebody who’s just starting out, just learning how to do this, willing to take some time to get educated, and with our new educational products of course it’s gonna be fabulous. And then they get to meet with the tax advisor that does not have to be as experienced, we don’t have to pay them you know the hundreds of thousands of dollars you know that we would have to pay somebody to do it one-on-one, rather we can you know it can be more of a question answer. So that’s one thing we’ve done that that has been amazingly successful. We just launched that and it’s been amazingly successful. The other thing we’ve done is we’ve created a network, we started a network of CPA firms. And we have seven in our network right now, very exciting to have seven CPA firms. We just started in June so we’ve wrapped up very quickly with these CPA firms. Here’s the fact: the fact is that there’s three types of CPA firms. There’s the big four which most people can’t afford. There’s the kind of the national firms or the regional firms, and these people tend to be very middle of the road, okay? It’s kind of like it’s kind of like eating at a chain restaurant right? You pretty much know what you’re gonna get and it’s gonna be mediocre and it’s gonna be at a mediocre price. I mean you know you it’s kind of like you get what you pay for there. But then what you have is you have the local CPA firms. The small, independent CPA firms that you can have some of the best tax people and wealth strategist in the world at these little local firms, but how do you even find them? It’s like a local restaurant, you know if you can find the really good local restaurant it’s always gonna be better than the chain, always. It’s just a matter of finding it.

Buck: How do you find them? How do you find that these groups that are gonna be?

Tom: So they’re finding us. It’s fascinating because here’s what’s going on with them, I mean we have a, our industry has a serious challenge. First of all we’re a bunch of old white guys like me, okay? So that’s the first challenge. So we’re not bringing people out of school into the profession like we need to be. They’re all going into IT or you know building apps, doing something fun, right? So we have to make it more fun for this you know when they come in, the students they have to be excited about what doing. The indepents don’t have a brand so it’s very hard for them to recruit, okay? And they don’t have the systems, they don’t have the training system and they don’t have the systems in order to provide, you know a really, a product that is a more consistent product. And so what we’re good at is we’re good at the systems and the education plus we already have a brand we have Tax-Free Wealth as the brand. So what we’ve done is we’re building this network of CPA firms. Our goal is 10,000 CPA firms worldwide, independent CPA firms. We have people already we have CPAs already, in Mexico, in Hong Kong, in Singapore, in Australia, in South Africa. We have people ready to go. We’re not ready for them but they are they’re waiting in the wings, waiting for us to get really everything i’s dotted and t’s crossed in the US. And then we’ll actually move overseas so it’s a complete revolution, complete transformation of an industry.

Buck: A couple comments: one is I think this is just incredibly important and Tom, we’ll talk a little bit about how people get in get in touch with Wealth Ability in a minute, but here’s the deal right, I talked to people all the time I talked to investors all the time I’ve been hearing this now for years which is, I’d love to get that kind of advice because my local my local guy says you can’t do that, here. And you can’t do this and you can’t do that and everything that you you talk about and the things that Tom talks about and all that, they just say no you can’t do it and he’s supposedly the quote-unquote “conservative guy” in the area, the one who does all the taxes for the doctors etc. What I have found in my experience, my personal experience is that quote unquote “conservative guy” who does all the doctors’ taxes he has one goal and one goal only and that is not to get audited, right? That’s the one goal. And if you do not get audited, this person is supposedly really, really good. And my response to most people on that is, why don’t you just use TurboTax then, right? I mean why don’t you just do something, I mean not even pays as much as you are because you’re not getting much for your value. And this now creates an opportunity for people to get somebody who’s quality, who you know, I mean they may not need you know Tom Wheelwright level support because their situation is not that complicated, but they’re still probably gonna save a lot of money if they go somewhere where someone is actually willing to do some work on the taxes.

Tom: Right. I mean you know it’s a point of view issue, right, is your point of view that the government’s out to get you or is your the point of view that the government is out to serve you, okay? Most people and most CPAs especially have this view that the government’s out to get you. Now that’s not to say the IRS is your friend. The IRS is not your friend, okay? But the other hand is the IRS should not be scary. If the IRS, if your accountant is scared of the IRS, you gotta think. I mean think about think about who goes to work for the IRS, okay? Now I have high respect for people who do this because you go work for the IRS and your best customers hate you. They don’t want to have anything to do with you. They don’t ever want to see you hear from you or talk to you. And that’s your best customers, okay? And your worst customers have no documentation, there’s nothing they can do and, there’s I mean seriously it would be better to be a proctologist.

Buck: You know what, we have some proctologists listening to the show.

Tom: Well there you go, see? They know what I’m talking about. People don’t go ooh I can’t wait to go see my proctologist this month, right? That’s really not what they’re thinking about. So what happens is then, in the tax world you’re not typically getting the best and brightest. This is, I’m not saying this about proctologists, but you’re not getting the best of the brightest in the IRS. They are not the best and the brightest, for the most part. Now there are some levels of the IRS, you know their national office, their appeals offices, that’s where the best and brightest are, but they’re not there the daily auditors, okay? And so if your CPA is afraid of what’s probably a C-student, what does that make your CPA? I mean seriously that’d be like, it’d be like saying let’s say, I’ve got this really good CPA, it’d be like LeBron James saying I’m gonna go play one-on-one basketball with a high school player and I’m scared to death. It’s not gonna happen. LeBron James is gonna be really kinda like piece of cake, right? But here’s the cool thing you can hire a LeBron James. You don’t have to deal with it yourself. In fact the rule is you should never ever talk to the IRS, ever. As a taxpayer. That is your tax advisers job. But if your tax adviser is afraid of doing it, seems to me like you got a big problem.

Buck: Yeah and just to be to the point about audits in general, again you know I have been audited. I got out, I did last year for a couple years ago. And you know what it turned out fine. And you know the the representation I had you know I think maybe we paid, ended up having to pay like five or six thousand dollars. But I mean the the bottom line is that it seems to me the more complicated your finances, the more money you make I mean the the audit is almost sort of an inevitable thing over time anyway.

Tom: Well you know I think you plan for it. And here’s the thing, when you’re preparing like when we’re preparing tax returns, like we’re doing some pretty complex free tax returns right now as we get you know get ready for a deadline, we’re going to do things on that tax return, it’s actually how we present the information that will reduce an IRS audit. So you know I look at it as the more you understand the IRS, the better you understand the IRS and the tax law, though you can still have to pay a lot lower taxes and have a lot lower chance of an IRS audit.

Buck: Right. So let me let me before before I forget to do this if if people are, and I strongly encourage people at the very least if you’re not already part of Tom’s group which is all a little bit more complicated now anyway, but we don’t need to get into the details of that. We’ll put a link into it a link for it anyway, but Tom can you just tell people how they can you know if they want to talk to somebody at Wealth Ability how they can do that?

Tom: It’s really easy. Just go to WealthAbility.com and there’s a button right on the front page that says schedule call, and no charge for the call. And our job is is to help you any way we can. So if it’s in educational courses, if it’s in you know you know finding a good CPA, it whatever it is, I mean our job is to do that. And we’re happy to help anybody who is seriously interested about reducing their taxes in building their wealth. So it’s just WealthAbility.com. It’s pretty simple

Buck: We’ll put a link to that in the show notes again, but I this is something everybody who’s, you’re really ought to do if you’re not, if you if you’re kind of following into that you know conservative accountant and again I use quote-unquote “conservative” unquote category which I know a number of you are. So I also want to talk about the podcast which is the relatively new and and I know a number of people are listening to it.

Tom: It’s called Wealth Ability show that’s it. Where we’re always learning how to make way more money and pay way less taxes.

Buck: So how’s that going and tell me who are you talking to? Who’s your avatar there?

Tom: You know what it is amazing. I mean the response has absolutely been astounding as to the number that the thousands and thousands and thousands of people you know we’ve only been going for a couple of months right? And literally we have thousands and thousands of listeners. So it’s it’s been going extremely well, I mean even my son is listening to the Wealth Ability show and he’s pretty excited he says this is really good. My son actually works in a customer service job you know for a quasi-governmental unit and he goes geez Tom you’ve got a lot of energy you must really like this stuff dad, you know? He’s going dad this is, I can’t believe how much energy you’ve got. Well how can you not have that much energy we’ve got great guests we’ve had Robert Kiyosaki on the show, we’ve had some of our clients on the show, you know we’ve had like Brad Sumrok on the show, I mean we’ve got great guests and the reality is that you know we do look at money and taxes differently from anybody else. I mean probably the closest to us of course would be Rich Dad since you know we do use, we do share a lot of information between us but we do have a different perspective so we have a very unique perspective. It’s all about how to make way more money while paying way less taxes so the idea is that the more money you make, if you do it right, the more money you make the less taxes you pay, not the other way around.

Buck: That’s right. Tom again the show is the Wealth Ability Show and we also got WealthAbility.com. Tons of information, Tom’s just giving it away for free even if you’re not up to the task of signing up for somebody. So go check that out. Tom thanks again for being on Wealth Formula Podcast.

Tom: Hey thank you Buck.

Buck: We’ll be right back.