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120: Prefrontal Investing with Dr. David Phelps

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Buck: Welcome back to the show everyone. Today my guest is Dr. David Phelps, D.D.S. Now a lot of you already know David because you are in his group or maybe you are a dentist who’s heard of him. He’s been around for a long time. He was actually, I would say that he’s been Buck Joffrey much longer than Buck Joffrey has been Buck Joffrey. He’s a nationally recognized speaker on creating freedom, building real business and investing in real estate. He also combines his professional and personal experience to illustrate how the tactical and aspirational work together. David works with health professionals, logical, rational professionals. And helps them become dreamers and then strategically manifest those dreams into freedom. He authors a monthly newsletter which is a path to freedom, and hosts the Dentist Freedom Blueprint podcast. He also has his Freedom Founders Mastermind community of which I know a number who are part of which is growing exponentially year by year. David, it’s a real treat to have you on the show, thanks for coming on.

David: Buck I love being here, thank you very much for having me.

Buck: So tell us how it all began, David. Obviously you started out as a dentist, had your own practice I know, this started a while back. And I knew you kind of pivoted in to the world of real estate so give us a little background on that.

David: It’s actually the other way around, Buck, and I’ll tell you that I’m not unlike you at all. Probably a lot of people that are listening to this podcast, my entrepreneurial spirits were within me from a very early age. My parents were very good parents. They didn’t spoil me, spoil us as kids. If we wanted something in life, something tangible like a new bike, or back then just having my own, not a color but a black and white TV in my room, I had to go out and figure out a way to buy that. I wasn’t given allowance so I was, parents wouldn’t just go buy it, so I learned early you know how to make money. And I sold greeting cards from door to door. Mowed lawns, do newspaper, do whatever it took to make money so I could buy things, buy stuff that I thought were important in life. My father was a physician so there was a natural path that I was gonna go down because, well, not that they forced me to do that, but just I saw my dad was a respected member of the community. Yes he was able to provide a good lifestyle, but I made a little diversion to dentistry because I became kind of a mentee of my orthodontist when I was in junior high, late junior high, high school. This orthodontist who really took kind of a affinity to me I think. And I saw him as someone who had all the things that I thought what I wanted in life, but he also got to go home at the end of the day. Something like that. You’re a surgeon, you know what I’m talking about. You don’t just get send your own hours. So I thought, ok, I’ll go down the dental path. But here’s the thing, when I was in college I was reading books about how to invest money. Now, I didn’t have any money to invest. I had debt. I should have been reading books about how to retire debt. Now I just wanted to learn how to invest money I didn’t have. Well you know I read books on the stock market, right? Books about mutual funds, and all that stuff and I read a few books about real estate. And now realize back in those days, Buck and everyone else, a lot of you on this podcast today, there was no Internet, alright? There was no Facebook, there was no forums, there was none of that stuff. I actually had to go to the library. I couldn’t even order off of Amazon. I had to go to a library, present a card. But there were actually books about real estate back then, this was the late 70’s. So I read those books between real estate and stock market and stock market just made no sense. I mean I couldn’t figure out how I can actually exert any kind of control and I’m kind of a control freak in life. I want to understand what I’m doing. I want to be able to call some shots and whether they’re good or bad, I wanted to feel like I had a play in it. And real estate made sense so I graduate college, went to dental school. My first year entering dental school I said, hey dad, I said, I’m going to be here for four years. I can either pay rent or we could, the key word here was “we”, we could own an asset called real estate. He’d never invested in real estate. And my dear father, he was very much vulnerable. My dad was a physician. As entrepreneurial as you get is having your own clinic, right? So he trusted me. He said, okay, he came down to Dallas, we spent a couple of weekends looking around and key thing I knew about real estate, really the fundamental thing I knew was buy the worst property in the best location. And we did. Fast forward four years, I was the manager of the property, he was the financier, capital investor. I had two tenants during four years, not too bad, not too bad for first time out of the gate, right? First tenants were not so good, I got some SMU students. They weren’t the best tenants, but fortunately I got their parents to cosign so the damage they did was taken care of. Next tenant was I got a family, much smarter move. But here’s the thing Buck, I waited tables all through college and dental school. And I actually got a pretty good restaurant, flexible hours, made some pretty good money, probably made about 20 bucks an hour, not bad, for back in the 80’s, right? Then I took the hours that I spent or invested on this capital asset, this real estate joint venture rental property that I bought with my dad’s help and I made if I took all those hours and what I made on the backend, which we split, capital gain profits. We made about fifty thousand bucks in four years. Capital gains. So I took my 25 thousand and when you count the hours I put into that, I made about two sixty per hour, a little bit more than ten times multiple over what I did back then, trading time for dollars in a restaurant. And I thought, that was my epiphany. That was, I thought, okay, yeah I’m gonna go on and become a dentist, and I’m gonna do that well and that will structure my basic lifestyle. But this capital asset, I didn’t even know what capital asset was back then, let’s just call it rental property, that’s what it was. This rental property thing, that worked out a little bit by luck, but more, it was, the opportunity was there, we didn’t make any big mistakes, and produced more income for me with less work. I thought, there’s something to this.

Buck: Yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about, you know, you talk about something called the gap. Specifically you know, I’ve heard you say that dentistal schools fail to reach, what they fail to teach you and how you can overcome it. Really, I think you’re talking about money there, and I think it’s really not just dentists, it’s probably physicians, and I think pretty much all physicians have this problem, which is, it just seems like, the closer you are in the, doctors are the worst. Dentists are at least a little…but it seems like there’s that element to it, but, to the extent that all professionals that are hyper focused on what it is, the skill or the art that they’re learning, they don’t really get taught anything about money, right? Is that what you mean by the gap?

David: Right. Well, yeah that’s one of the gaps we talk about. So certainly there’s a gap in financial acumen that as you said, the whole premise when we go through all these years of education become…experts, specific skill sets: surgery, diagnostics, treatment. And that’s very reputable and certainly doing those things, we do change lives. And that’s very satisfying, yes. Problem is, Buck, there’s no leverage in that. You can certainly improve yourself. You can become a better surgeon, a better dentist, a better clinician, you can be more efficient in what you do, you can actually do larger cases, large rehabilitation cases and essentially make more money per hour spent. But there’s a cap on that. You can’t explode that past a certain point. And we don’t recognize that when we’re in school and thinking about becoming, who we’ll eventually become. We don’t recognize that churning that hard in trading time for dollars really doesn’t lead to freedom because the big problem is, as we start to earn more money, our lifestyle typically goes up with it. In fact, sometimes even faster. Well why is that? Because we thought we sacrificed, we sacrificed all these years, with our buddies out of college and they’re in business and wall street or whatever. They’re living life and you go, man, I gotta catch up with that, you know. I deserve it. We got families we got spouses who put up with our stuff and all those lean years and they’re saying, come on, come on. Let’s move to the better neighborhood and let’s amp it up. And that’s when it starts to fall apart because once you get on that hamster wheel, it’s really hard to dial it back.

Buck: It’s what I call the “Golden Handcuffs”.

David: Yes.

Buck: The keeping up with the Joneses or the working rich. So they just keep working to keep up their lifestyle. Now, you know, you also talked about the accumulation theory of wall street. And that’s gonna leave 96% of people unable to retire. Talk a little bit about what you mean the accumulation theory and, you know, what’s a better way of doing it?

David: Yeah. you know what, traditional conventional financial planning, here we really, people endure money magazine and certainly the financial houses fidelities, vanguards, schwabs, and anybody you talk to would talk about, you know, early in life, it’s very important you start to save money. And I agree. We need to be able to take certain amount of money off the table and put it somewhere. But when they talk about saving, saving, this whole accumulating. And then of course wall street wants you to hand it over to somebody there to put it into financial products which they claim will grow and someday will have this oak tree that you can sort of start picking the food off of. But this whole accumulation game, I think is wrong, Buck. Because it doesn’t teach anybody. Discipline, yes. But beyond that discipline, if you can have that discipline, does it teach anybody how to actually orchestrate the real lifeblood of having freedom? And that’s cashflow. Just having accumulated stack of money of capital that you cannot actually see how to sustain cashflow, what good does it do you? And that’s why so many of our colleagues, as hard as they work, even if they stack up a million, a million and a half, two million bucks, which you and I would say is a decent amount of money, but the fear there is a real fear. It’s like, ok, I want to retire, I want to slow down, I want to leave the practice and live off of what I’ve accumulated, but I’m scared to death because, well where’s it been? In the financial, in wall street? Well what happened ten years ago? It blew out. And I could ride through that because I was still working. Well if I quit now and I don’t have any active income anymore, and if we have another blow out, where am I? I gotta go back to work. They haven’t ever figured out how to orchestrate cash flow. That’s why you and I love tangible assets. Real businesses, or real estate. Anything that you can actually have some level of control over it. It’s not perfect but you can exert control and therefore have predictability. And tangible assets will also greatly mimic inflation which I think we’re probably going to see some heavy inflation in the years to come. That’s another scare factor, fear factor that people who are ready to put retire ahead will say, I’ve accumulated this much, is it gonna last? And the cost of living I don’t think is going to go down, it’s just going to go up and up. Taxes are going to go up. So yeah, all these factors working against us, you never learn how to overcome those through your investing, then you’re in a position where you have so many unknowns that you just can’t let go.

Buck: I think one of the things that you mentioned is part of this accumulation theory that I think what the trap is for professionals is that there are so many of these prefabricated retirement plans, you know. You have these, are you going to a job and all of a sudden they say we’re going to give you a 401k. What does that mean to most people? What that really means is, ok so I don’t really have to pay any attention to retirement because it’s going to go on autopilot. But most of these 401k’s end up being invested into a basket of mutual funds and as you know, the last 3 decades, the average yield on a mutual fund despite what the market has done has been between 3 and 3 and a half percent. And if inflation is going at 2, 2 plus, you’re not, you’re doubling your money in about seventy-two years, which is just not enough. Right? But I think that’s a real trap. Because like you said, I am looking at people, I talk to people frequently who are now, who have been making a lot of money throughout their life. And then they’ve been spending a lot, you know, they’re buying stuff, living a good life, and it’s not because they thought they were being irresponsible, they just thought the system was going to take care of them. And then all of a sudden they’re 60, in their 60’s and maybe they’ve gone through a divorce or something like that and they’re like, holy cow, I was making mid 6 figures for 2/3 decades and I’ve only got this amount to live on if I were to retire. How am I going to outlive this pile? Do you see that often?

David: I see it a lot, Buck, unfortunately. There’s little you can do to help someone that’s in that position. I say kind of the mean age that I get calls from or communication would be dentists who are about 59 years old. So right at that point before they turn 60. And they’re still in practice. And oftentimes they’ve gone through a divorce. Sometimes multiple. So that’s, I would say that’s not a wealth-building…

Buck: That’s right.

David: I don’t mean to tangent off here, but what those people get worked up about, they get worked up about asset protection, right. Protect my assets. One of the big ones is, don’t get divorced.

Buck: Well no. Knock on wood.

David: Saves a lot of time and trouble if you just follow that one rule, is figure that one out. I’m not, I’m a little bit facetious because unfortunately I’ve been through a divorce. So I can laugh a little bit but at the same time it is a serious thing. You know back to your premise, is that yeah, they worked all their life. They literally have millions of dollars through their practices. Millions! And what do they have to show for it? Oftentimes still a fair amount of debt, business debt, practice debt, consumer debt. They’re still trying to, they still think it’s on them to put three, four kids through graduate school, which is another discussion for another day, but they’ve loaded themselves up, they never had a plan, they thought as you said the system, or just putting it on wall street or their 401K in the traditional plan, was going to do it, and it doesn’t. Because they were never intentionally in the game. They kind of advocated it. And I get it. They’re busy. We’re all busy, right? But getting to freedom, which is the key. We can build up a lot of money but we can’t buy time back. Time is everything in life. If you don’t have that time, then you really have nothing at all. And so I encourage people, as busy as they are, as hard as they work, as many plates as they have to spin, you know, in their lives, I get it. But you’ve got to be intentional about building this wealth and doing it the right way from the get go. Because that’s what’s going to give you something that you can, plan B, let go of your active practice at some point, if you want to or if you have to. And you’re not stuck looking at the backboard of your life going well, what happened?

Buck: You talked about creating a Freedom Blueprint. Now, let’s take that example, if somebody comes to you say at 59 and a half, and says, you know, I’ve got this practice, I’m clearing like $300,000 a year net income, but I’ve only got about 1.2 million here and I’ve stashed it away, it’s been “growing” in mutual funds during this period of time and I haven’t done anything else because I figured that was going to take care of it. David, well listen and say, this is not going to be enough to retire on in five years like I had planned. Obviously, everybody’s situation is different. But how do you, where do you start in a situation like that?

David: Yeah. well, first foremost, Buck, you know, assuming we’ve got a married couple, that assumption, you’ve got to make sure that both are on board. And that’s not all it’s going to be right off the get go. I mean there’s, and I’m not a marriage counselor, I’m not a financial advisor, you know. I’m an educator. But I can be very practical and say, number one, you can’t have a blame game, you know? Because what happens so often in life is that two people are on two different pathways and many times, not being chauvinistic here, but let’s say the doctor, being the male, being out there, the breadwinner, or heavy breadwinner, the heavy load, has all these mishaps in failure to plan or be a good manager of money, just, it happens. And he has to stop all that inside. So he has these sleepless nights as the kids are growing older and the spouse and the kids think all is good because she gets to go to Disneyland every year. So it all seems it’s good. You’re driving the cars, you’re living the lifestyle. But inside, he’s feeling like, he knows inside it’s not working. So you gotta get that out. Because as long as there’s some mystery in the communication, next thing is, you’ve got to just account for what you’ve got. Know your assets. You know, your practice, your business. How healthy is that? How healthy are you? What can you leverage or better optimize in that practice? Because yes, to maintain a certain lifestyle, you have to have enough to let go, you’ll probably have to work a few more years. Now to figure out what that looks like, you know, you have to say, what’s your lifestyle burn rate? What’s that look like? What’s, if you’re done with the active practice, you’ve paid off all your debt and this is what you have, where does that need to be deployed to get you what you want? And the faster you want to get there or the shorter the timeframe that you want to close that gap, the more potential risk/leverage one has to use. Again, be very careful in the current market. We both know that we’re at the tipping point in the market, probably have some softening, so do you go out and heavily leverage like we would have three or four years ago? Not the same way. But you and I both know to build anything up and to build it more quickly, some amount of leverage has to be used. So yeah, you’re right. There’s no one answer for each person. You’ve got to balance all these different factors in play and get them on the same page. And let’s get real about it. Sometimes it means for the next few years maybe you do cut the lifestyle. Maybe you make your kids go out and actually be resourceful and pay for some of their own education. Maybe there’s some things that you, again, you’ve got to be on the same page. Fifty-nine and not having a game plan out, that’s the tough one. I’d much rather be working with a younger person who’s got some years to work the blueprint, and it’s an easier pathway to start early.

Buck: Right. Well you say, take the chance. Go from overthinking, to dreaming, to freedom. Talk about that.

David: Yeah. and it’s a lot of what you talk about too. The way we’re brought up, to be conservative, we’re health practitioners. We’re healers. We have to be conservative because we deal with people. But we’ve got to take that hat off and I think, you’ve got to have a bigger vision for what you want your life to be. So you’ve got to take that hat off from being conservative and precise and measure your thing three times before you cut anything from a human body, absolutely. For your life you’ve got to take that hat off. You’ve gotta blow up a bigger vision and you’ve got to be, you gotta have an active vision of what you want your life to be. And you can’t just look out to age 60 or 65. Yeah when I get there, then I’ll do this. No, no, no. you’ve got to have milestones much, much sooner. Yes, sacrifice early, but give yourself rewards early. Have a plan to pay off debt. You and I know there’s ways to pay off certain debt. Some debt you don’t want ever pay off, just want to let it run the course and amortize out. Other debt you want to pay off, how do you pay off debt, how do you build and leverage it to your business, your practice, how do you take the money, the funds you pull off the business, the practice, and how do you deploy that? Those things have to put into play very intentionally. You cannot advocate that responsibility like too many of our colleagues do because that’s what wall street says. Hey, no problem, just give us your money, we’ll set your 401K, we’ve got it all planned for you, just sit back and work like a dog and when you get there someday, we’ll be there for you. Well, are they? No. I mean, they ever come back and say, geez sorry it didn’t work out? No. They’re gone. You’ve got another generation of wall street people back in there to take over and try to give you a different outcome. That’s just the work.

Buck: yeah you know, in one of the things you said there, you were talking about people in the healthcare professions, surgeons or dentists, whatever. Really it’s, it’s a lot of pretty much high paid professionals. Some of the highly educated. They are afraid to take some risks, think outside of the box because they think, because they are “conservative”. One other thing I think is important is to define exactly where that notion of “conservative” came from in the first place, right? Like what is conservative? You know, I have this, my brother is a big time banker and he was managing a sovereign wealth fund in the middle east for one of the countries over there. And he got lured away by an entrepreneurial company in Dubai. They said they wanted his help to take them public. Well, he came over, plans changed, and told him that they didn’t need him anymore after about three or four months on the job. Now he’s doing fine. He’s made plenty of money. But the point here is, my mom always thinks he’s the conservative one. Right? Why? Because he’s always working for someone, making his salary. He’s a salary, like a high salary. But who’s the conservative, I mean what’s really conservative in this scenario? To me, I’m the conservative one. No one can ever fire me. No one can ever fire me. No one can tell me, you know, I don’t have to all of a sudden wake up one day and say, what I thought was reality is no longer reality. And that’s one of the paradigm shifts that I think a lot of people have to make. The same thing goes for mutual funds, why are we thinking that wall street is “conservative”? Right? Why do you think that is? Why do we think that it’s conservative? Why do we call it conservative?

David: It’s what I call “groupthink”. It’s majority thinking. It’s what we’ve indoctrinated into thinking. It comes to us from so many different media channels. It’s how we’re brought up, right? And so if “everybody else is doing it”, in fact, back in dental school, years ago, I remember, the school tried to help us with financial planning, brought a financial planning guy into the school. Is he gonna talk about orchestrating your own future or investing in tangible assets like real estate? Heck, no! He comes in, talks about the traditional stuff. So from very early on, this is what we’re taught. So anytime that we’re presented with something that’s different than what we’ve been brought up to think, then that becomes not conservative. That becomes aggressive. That becomes risky. So that’s what it is, Buck. you’re exactly right. You just gotta shift the way people think. It’s no more than that. It’s just how we’re brought up.

Buck: And then you just gotta think about it critically and challenge your own paradigms. To me, working for somebody else is risky.

David: It is. Coz you have actually no control. I mean I was, early on in my career, when I first got out of school, dental school, I did work for somebody else. I was an associate. I didn’t have any financial, that was probably a good thing for me to do coz I didn’t, there’s so many things I didn’t know so I learned a lot and I had the basis of a business that I could actually make money without all the risk of all the other financial machinations of operating a business. But within a relatively short time, you know, I could do this better. Famous last words. But that’s a good thing, at some point you gotta say, this is not what I want. I’m not content working for somebody else because most of us that are entrepreneurs and are driven A-type personalities, we want some control. We want the opportunity to take the challenge to live a life to create, do things bigger, better, whatever we define as our vision in our life, we want to do that. We don’t want to be under somebody else’s thumb. We want to drive this. We need both kinds of people in this world. And there’s nothing wrong with the other side. It’s whoever you are.

Buck: Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting everybody go quit their job. I think the point being that identify what is truly, what you call “conservative”. And if what is dictating your behavior on some threshold of risk, just make sure that you’ve calibrated that correctly. Because that’s a major issue I think for people. And that, you know, is not just about entrepreneurship. That’s about what we’re discussing here with regard to your investing as well. Risk is really, it just depends whose hands it’s in or whose vision it is what mindset you’re in. Now, let me shift a little bit. Coz you’ve got this great group that I hear about a lot of times, it’s called “Freedom Founders”. Tell us a little bit about Freedom Founders.

David: Freedom Founders is a mastermind community and I emphasize the word Community. It’s a little bit like the sitcom back in the 90’s like Cheers, right? Sam Malone and Norm would come in and they’d go, “Hey Norm!” or “Hey Cliff!”, right? So in Cheers, everybody knows your name. And you and I were taught early on about finding the right people to invest with or through collaboration. Well that’s what Freedom Founders is. It’s a community of people that are like-minded, like-spirit, but we’re the same people, with some new people will come in, so you get to know people. The people that I have found to collaborate with that bring I think very highly curated investment opportunities, kind of a smorgasboard, all kinds all different asset classes, because I can’t provide all that. I wouldn’t pretend to. Same thing it’s organic. The same people come back and that community we beat things up, meaning it’s not just about me. I don’t, I have biases about certain things and I’m very clear about them. I talk about what I like, what I don’t like, but that doesn’t mean that my way is the only way. I like to have other smart people, that are also part of the group, trusted advisors, board of advisors, who also aren’t there with an agenda in mind. They’re there because they’d also like to learn and be part of a community where we can out our ideas out there or our challenges, our concerns, what do you think about investing in this in the marketplace today? Well you’re gonna hear different points of view, right? Because everyone has a different perspective. You get to be in a room like that where you feel like people aren’t there just to sell you into something but actually have perspective and experience. You get to that actually start formulate your own path. And that’s how it should be. None of us should ever follow one person. You’re well-read, Buck. you’ve studied. And I bet you in the same way, there’s some people you find more of affinity for. I like that person because, number one, I think they’re right coz they have the same beliefs. And also they have a lifestyle and some core values that I’d like and see I like that. And maybe there’s somebody else on the other side who is very wise and smart, but there may be some parts of their life or other place you know, I’m not totally bought in. I’ll pick and choose. I’ll take the pieces that are relevant. That’s why I like the community. It’s not one person saying, hey, I know how to do this, this is the way to do it, because there’s more than one way to do anything. So Freedom Founders is something that has become the joy of my life. It’s my passion because I love to be around other people. I like to help other people and through it I get to have a platform that I get to invest my money as well. So I do, as I tell the doctors, this is how I do it today. I don’t go out and find my own deals. I don’t go out and knock on doors. This is the way I do it. So I walk the talk. And it’s a lot of fun.

Buck: The model is somewhat similar to my accredited investor group except I think yours is sort of like more in person and that sort of thing. One of the things that you sort of do for your group as I understand which we don’t do in investor club is, I’ve talked to people in your group who’ve found tremendous value with helping with their practice. So if they’re trying to, if they’re a dentist, I’ve talked to a few dentists who’ve really found tremendous value in what you’ve been able to do. Tell us about some of the things that you’ve been able to do with practice. Like what I’ve never gotten into with these people, but things I hear is a recurring theme from your colleagues.

David: Yeah and Freedom Founders didn’t start that way. My first vision of Freedom Founders is we’re not going to do anything about practice or it’s all about investing, particularly through real estate. That’s what my initial focus was. But didn’t take long to see, Buck that you know, as doctors came, they all dragged this thing called “the practice” along with them. They didn’t drag it with them, that’s the engine. So I’m not a practice management guy. I mean I can talk about practice management. I’ve been there. Been in the trenches, I’ve been through mergers and sale and associates and partnerships. I’ve been through it. I can talk about it, just it’s not my passion. So I realized that I couldn’t just ignore this ball and chain called the practice that could be optimized so they could get their money invested. So rather than me do it, just like real estate, because I’m well-networked, I brought in, not just one or two, but some people have a choice, but I bring in good people that I know have a great track record in helping with all aspects of practice. And you know, a lot of it comes back down to mindset. Comes back to leadership. It comes down to building a culture. You know all of the technology, all that stuff that dentists particularly like, we love our toys, we like to buy all these cool stuff, but having a business is so many different pieces and I have a real appreciation for business. Because with Freedom Founders, I have a great team. A better team with Freedom Founders than I ever had my entire practice. I wish I knew back then what I know today, I would have had a better practice. But you only know what you know. So yeah, we definitely help them with their practice, but it’s through other people. I talk about it, I try to lay the vision or what they need to focus on, but then I help plug them in to good people who I know have the, value people. And if they decide they want to work with them, then that’s their deal. But we have a lot of accountability. I only bring in good people and they have accountability to our people. Not to give guarantees, there’s no guarantees in life. But to provide the value, provide the service. Now it’s up to the individual who wants that help to take the action. That’s the part they’re responsible for, right? Whether it’s in their practice or whether investing money. You gotta take responsibility to step up and follow a plan or do due diligence, you know things that we teach.

Buck: So David you’ve got the Dentist Freedom Blueprint podcast, you’ve got the newsletter, you’ve got Freedom Founders mastermind community. Where can we go to learn more about this?

David: Yeah probably the last two places, FreedomFounders.com is the main website for the community. And then the Dentist Freedom Blueprint podcast, which you can get off of iTunes, Stitcher, out there with all the podcasts. Those are two good places I think for people to engage to learn more about what we do and get to hear from great people as well coz I love exposing people to great people and great ideas.

Buck: David, thanks so much for being on Wealth Formula podcast today.

David: It’s been a pleasure, Buck. Thank you.

Buck: We’ll be right back.