+1 (312) 520-0301 Give us a five star review on iTunes!
Send Buck a voice message!

206: The Realities on the Ground

Share on social networks: Share on Facebook
Facebook
Tweet about this on Twitter
Twitter
Share on LinkedIn
Linkedin

Buck: Welcome back to the show everyone this is Buck Joffrey from Wealth Formula Podcast and Dr. Dave Draghinas from Doctors Unbound. We are doing a show together. We just connected over email recently thinking about some of the things that are unique to our groups and the people that we talk to so we thought we’d do a joint podcast. And so some people know who I am, some people know who Dave is. But Dave, why don’t you start out, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Dave: Yes so thanks for agreeing to do this. I think it’s awesome. Dave Draghinas, I’m an anesthesiologist. I still practice clinical medicine and I do and host the Doctors Unbound Podcast. Been doing that for two plus years and you were a guest on our show, gosh I think it’s been a year or so. So thank you again for doing that, well you know we’ll link up in the show notes you know with that episode as well and you know, gosh I don’t know what it’s been a couple weeks now a month or so and you know we started getting the first cases of Covid-19 here in my area and kind of seeing what everything was happening online, seeing everything that was happening in my community, seeing the reaction and the markets and it felt like I had just entered a black swan and so it’s been kind of crazy you know what’s been going on, how all of this is affected everyone, physicians, non-physicians, investors so you know I had some some listeners of my podcast reached out and you know and they wanted to know more details how this is affecting me how this is affecting you know our community and so we talked a little bit about that on the podcast. And what I’ve been trying to do is you know talk to other other physicians, other podcasters out there to get their sense of you know what’s going on with them, what’s going on with their communities so we can kind of share and import and learn from each other. So thank you, thank you again for agreeing to do this. You know we’ll put this out on both of our podcasts, you know if you’re a listener on my podcast and you haven’t checked out Dr. Joffrey’s podcast you know we’ll link up to that. Go check out his podcast, he does an awesome job there. So just kind of you know growing the message and sharing with each other.

Buck: Yes. So yeah and just to give you a little bit of background for Dr. Dave’s, your podcast listeners, my podcast is Wealth Formula Podcast. We’re not really a doctor podcast. They do have a lot of doctors in the podcast. I happen to be a doctor I’m in i’m you know ENT facial plastics guy who who really only practice for a few years have finished training and 2009 or so and then practiced till I was about 40. And then just kind of just you know entrepreneurship and business and real estate and now I guess podcasting so that’s really my story, it’s different my podcast is really focused on you know high paid professionals and investing and and a lot of non-traditional stuff so that’s the story with them with me. But I want to throw it back to you Dave because I think one of the things that I’m curious about is you know I haven’t really honestly talked to a lot of doctors about what’s going on and you are in a field of anesthesia where you know you’re probably out there intubating people you know putting these ventilators into people and tell us about how that’s been.

Dave: Yeah so it’s been kind of crazy you know I think I was a little bit ahead of the curve in the sense that I was tracking what was going on you know earlier on in Asia then hearing first hand stories of what was going on in Italy and then just just kind of bracing for the storm. So I kind of saw it coming and then you know in our areas and then it started you know kind of becoming you know the talk of it and the preparations are becoming more prevalent amongst our hospitals to the point now where, I’m in the Dallas area the Dallas Metroplex yeah the Dallas Metroplex so luckily we’re not an area that’s been hit super hard. We do have cases but it hasn’t been like New York or Seattle or something like that but you know she’s give you an idea you know elective cases have gone away. So on the one hand you have a lot of doctors you know who are hurting financially because you know anybody who depends on that type of work to generate income that has been drastically reduced. On the other hand as you mentioned you know we you know as part of our job we regularly intubate intubated patients which means we place a breathing tube to take over the breathing typically during the general anesthetic type of the case, obviously now that has become a big issue because these patients who get really really six with Covid-19 to the point where their body can no longer tolerate breathing on their own, they get they get intubated and placed on a ventilator and one of the procedures that is super high risk for spreading this virus is this act of intubating or placing that breathing tube and you know we anesthesiologists are right there you know basically at the mouth at the head of the bed getting ourselves you know potentially exposed to this. So it’s you know it’s a big deal, it’s a big deal because you know you may be personally concerned about contracting this virus and how you’re gonna react to it but also you know for me the concern is also am I gonna bring something home to my family? I’ve got small kids I’ve got you know fortunately kids have been relatively spared from this but I have a child that’s under one year of age so it makes me a little bit more nervous and I have my in-laws that live with me and so there are a little bit you know advanced age and so I worry about you know bringing something home that could potentially harm them.

Buck: And tell us about what that looks like what do these patients look like? I mean I have to I have to admit when at first when they started coming out through the pipe I think I was on the side of what I was hearing it was like okay well this thing in China maybe it’s bad even maybe it’s SARS but I didn’t even cross my mind that it would come here, I know it sounds stupid right but it didn’t even really occur to me it seemed like something that was you know somewhere else. And you know we were like oh is this gonna affect supply chain is this kind of this and did you I mean how is this how is this different why is it different for I mean my non-medical audience I would love for you to kind of give your commentary.

Dave: Sure but it’s all preface this by saying that you know I’m by no means a Covid-19 expert but as a physician with my medical understanding I’ll share with you kind of what I know and what I understand. I think one of the things that makes this particularly dangerous is this period of time when you can have somebody who is infected with this virus, they’re asymptomatic meaning they’re not showing any symptoms of being said they’re not showing fevers they’re not showing cough anything like that where they might think as a you know contagious person hey I need to stay away from people so there’s this period of time and you know it could be anywhere from a couple days I think to a week and a half or something like that where you know people can be walking around going through their community and they’re infectious and they don’t know it. And so I think that’s one of the scary pieces of this particular virus because that allows it to spread very easily. The other part of it that is really scary is that we are seeing young people struggle with this and be have a really severe impact for me like you were talking up to the point of intubation and once you get into beta your chances of surviving are not in great and from what I’ve read so far we don’t understand completely why some people do much worse than others, there’s certainly an age component, there’s certainly a comorbidity component, but I’ve heard of young healthy people who you know get hit really hard and are not making it through. So you can imagine it’s kind of like you know luck of the draw or rolling to dice or something like that. You don’t know how well you’re gonna do once once you’re affected and from a health care worker’s perspective there are some studies that are showing that health care workers seem to be affected a lot worse and you know there’s theories as to why maybe we’re just exposed to higher viral loads because of the intubating, because of being in that environment so much, but there is some correlation with health care workers getting a more severe form the disease unfortunately.

Buck: So yeah and I’ll just throw in my two cents from my you know people that want to learn more about this too which is I agree with Dave. Basically what is ensued is that this this virus is very smart right, it’s smart because it’s not as deadly for everybody as the big scary ones that you hear about like Ebola you know or or the the first you know SARS or some of these other things that happened earlier and that has made it more deceptive because a smart virus is not gonna want to kill its host right away. It’s gonna want to actually kind of keep it alive so that it can move on to the next person. And so what has this has become in anyways is it becomes sort of a deadly case of musical chairs right where somebody’s getting a virus passing it on getting a virus passing it on and then all of a sudden you get somebody who you know gets very sick or dies and that’s what’s made this so particularly difficult to manage. And the other thing is that like Dave was saying it does preferentially seem to hit you know people who are older who are you know diabetics or obese or whatever. But there are these things that we’re finding out you know could it be some receptors in the lungs you know Dave I don’t know if you saw some studies on different variations of receptors in the lungs that might make it more easy for these viruses to hit young totally healthy people. So really you’re in a situation where we’ll darn you if you’re not at least a little bit worried about this virus right now pretty much no matter who you are, I don’t think you’ve kind of understood the gravity of what’s going on.

Dave: Yeah the latest thing that I’ve read it and again I don’t think this has been vetted out completely or anything like that this is kind of medical theorizing is that it may attach to you know the hemoglobin molecule, maybe one of the chains there almost like a carbon monoxide poisoning type of a situation where once it attaches there now oxygen cannot attach and you know for remembering back to medical school physiology and kind of have you know the oxygen dissociation curves kind of looks like an S you know and then in like the way the chains work and they kind of help oxygen bind and then you know once that’s not working well you know your ability to you know to utilize and transport oxygen goes way down so there’s some thoughts in there may be something to it from that I’ve read that you know it’s somehow affecting that hemoglobin and the way it attaches oxygen and that’s super scary.

Buck: Yeah and there’s some heart damage issues that we’re just starting to learn about people who are recovering, I mean this is good this is kind of a you know it’s that disease X that people have been talking about for some time we just unfortunately we’re not prepared for it. You know one thing just beyond the disease, this is happening now but in some regards what we have to start thinking about is okay what’s next have you given any thought or have any thought you know what what is tomorrow gonna look like, right? I mean what happens when I heard talking about how the curve typically when you hit a peak it really starts to slide down very very quickly right. And so say we get to the point where Wuhan is now and you know in New York City or whatever we’re down to no deaths in a day that are attributed to this, when do you see that happening? I mean I know you don’t have a crystal ball but based on what you’ve heard and you know what does that look like afterwards?

Dave: Yeah the short answer is I’m really not sure and you know like you were saying you know peaks and valleys made hopefully smaller peaks and smaller valleys and kind of going through you know this the cyclical process there’s a lot we don’t know there’s you know if this wasn’t so scary it would all it would be more fascinating to see how the world is kind of using its brain power and everything collective brain power to try and figure out how to beat this right, we’ve got people working on vaccines you know in different parts of the world you know can something potentially be developed sooner rather than later that’ll be a big difference, people are working on novel therapies can one of those things potentially be a game-changer, people are trying to repurpose other meds right like the hydrochloric and stuff like that does that work so if it wasn’t so deadly it would be fascinating to see how you know the world is working to try and combat this. I’m hopeful I’m always kind of an optimist so I’m hopeful that you know things won’t be shut down for that long and you know with with time we can you know kind of get this more under control because one of the big issues we talked about how quickly it can be infectious and spread when it decides that being deadly for certain number of people which is tragic is is the idea that this spreads so quickly that it overwhelms our healthcare system and unfortunately we’re seeing signs of that in New York and we saw signs of that in Italy so hopefully with these you know social distancing measures hopefully with with all of these other treatments and things stay on the road it won’t be such a such a big you know strain on the world if you will.

Buck: Well I think it already is and I would argue that you know much of the damage that that’s gonna be followed from this the economic damage is going to be I think far bigger than most people are really giving giving credit to and even looking at today and you know I’m not really a stock guy right I’m a real estate guy for the most part but just looking at the Dow Jones Industrial the last couple days it’s been in kind of creeping back up and it seems very strange to me, it’s such strange optimism right like why in the world would the stock market be rallying when most businesses are closed when both most businesses are not generating income. It is absolutely mind-boggling to me. And so what it makes me think is that I think that what we’re really looking at on the ground and you know I’m a small business owner right so I have fortunately I have a few different businesses and you know they make it so I can kind of survive in a lot of different environments. But one of the businesses I have is a cosmetic surgery business. I don’t operate but I have the one in Chicago and we’ve been applying for some of these you know SBA loans and that kind of thing and I’ll tell you it is is a bloody nightmare right this whole thing is this whole thing this application process who gets money when do we get money so far it’s been a big old you know what show. And the problem is that if you look at the economic fallout of this it really could be it really could be so much worse than people think right now because if you consider that 50% of people are employed by small business right, small business meaning like the kind of business that I have their practices that people have, you know the shops you go down your little street you know the little shops that you have on your your main roads and stuff, everybody shut down and if you can’t revive those businesses if you can’t keep those businesses afloat, we’re going to be talking about massive long-term unemployment. So I’ve been seeing some suggestions that people are like okay well if we can get a hold of this in the next you know two or three months then it’s gonna be a sharp curve back up I just don’t see it. I just don’t see it and to look at that market as it stands right now sort of creeping back slow, I mean I’m not saying it’s gone back up but it suggests to me a level of people not understanding the gravity of this whole thing.

Dave: So I agree with that I think the economic fallout is it’s gonna be huge I you know no two ways about it I you know even on the lower end it’s it’s gonna be I think massive so I agree with you there I think you know the stock market has already been affected I think it’ll say it’ll affect the real estate market as well is what like you were talking about when you have all that unemployment when you have all those people out of work it can’t but affect you know the real estate markets as well. I don’t know you know I’m not a stock expert and I don’t know but I mean I’m in quite a few groups you know amongst healthcare professionals and it’s really interesting to me it’s interesting that you know for the most part people talk about hey low-cost index funds and just you know put it on autopilot and just you know go to sleep and then whenever we have any kind of shakiness, any kind of turbulence you know people are either number one panicking or number two asking what stocks should I buy yeah so it’s really interesting that people do not take their you know the advice that they’ve subscribed to it’s human nature I think and I think what happens is people look to the immediate past to try and predict the future. So I people look at you know 2008 and they say oh well you know everything crashed and you know everything was bad but then look we had this decade plus of everything going up and I think people just want to assume that what’s going on now is going to be similar to what happened immediately before and so they’re like oh okay it’s down 30% it’s down 20% I’m just gonna buy now and ride it all the way up. Well you know past performance is no guarantee of future performance so I think there’s some of that going on as well.

Buck: I think that’s right and you know I I’ve been thinking about that a lot because you know for better for worse a lot of people ask me what I think they ought to do and I say there’s no way I’m gonna tell you what to do but what I will tell you is that the people who are out there telling you that oh just stay the course and you’re supposed to ignore all of this and just keep investing the way you are there is a certain level of hubris there that I think it’s hard hard for me to completely swallow because you’re right you can look at past performance dictating the future etc but I mean Dave listen in 2008, you know it took four years to recover the market took four years to recover that’s a long time. Let’s go back to 1929, you know that from the highs of the Dow before the crash you know going down over four years losing all of that value it took 25 years for the Dow Jones Industrial to recover 25 years. And so I don’t know is it when we think about past performance and predicting the future are we only willing to look for the last 30–40 years right? There is something to this that I think that listen I’m a big advocate for thinking about things in a historical context but don’t ignore part of history so that you can skip to the part that you like. This is something that I think people ought to be thinking about. I would hate to be in a situation right now where you know I was thinking about retiring and you know with my stock portfolio or whatever within the next year or two I’m not saying that is this is gonna happen I’m not saying this is a depression I’m saying that right now I don’t know which way this is gonna go and I don’t know anybody does and so I think for people who just sit there and talk about not worrying and you know just stay the course and all that I think there’s a lot of hubris there, huge amounts.

Dave: Yeah I read an interesting article it was I think it was like Harvard Business Review or something like that and it was a very interesting article on you know a lot of the stuff that we just talked about now since you know since you know Covid-19 hit and basically the upshot is that you know there’s too many unknown factors to know how bad it’s gonna be you know whether this is gonna be like a v-shape recovery or a u-shaped or something worse than that and even some of the smartest you know purportedly some of the smartest minds are saying like hey we we don’t know we don’t know and so for me the you know what I got from that article is that it’s probably gonna be pretty bad and we we can hope for the best but we probably have to just prepare that it that it may be pretty bad.

Buck: Yeah I mean there’s aftershocks to anything like right I mean if you think about okay maybe there’s a v-shape to the recovery in terms of individuals right, maybe we’re all of a sudden we’re not you know we’re not getting sick anymore. But does that mean that everybody’s gonna go out and start going on vacation again? Does that mean that people are gonna start flying everywhere going to concerts, going to games and being in the middle of a bunch of other people? It’s gonna take time for people to get comfortable with that and if you end up out of this thing with 25% unemployment it’s gonna be even more difficult to do that so I’m just putting that out there because I think that the optimism I’m sort of baffled by the optimism right now, I don’t see anything to be optimistic about.

Dave: Yeah I don’t either and you know you were hinting at some things that are very interesting which is you know are there gonna be some structural differences to the economy based on this there very well may be there may be some structural things that are gonna be very different going forward because you know this virus becomes cyclical or does not get completely wiped out or or something else you know you know comes along that is something that we don’t know but something that we we have to think about.

Buck: So let’s talk a little bit about what you know what you’re doing and what I’m doing in terms of investing and how things are going with that so tell us a little bit about I guess your investments and your interest outside of medicine and how those things are being affected right now.

Dave: Sure so you know one area where we’re I would say heavily invested in or where we’ve had a lot of interest in or short-term rentals and as you can imagine almost overnight you know bookings just went away one away because you know the whole world basically came came to a stop so people who were traveling for whatever reasons that we’re talking about weren’t traveling anymore. So for me one of the biggest lessons unfortunately something that I was practicing was having cash reserves you know and I think you know if you’re gonna be a business owner and I think you should be a business owner because I think that’s one of the great ways along with real estate to create wealth, one of the biggest take homes for me is running you know a solid business and having those cash reserves. So I’m you know I’m not sweating right now because those reserves are there. Yeah it’s yeah it’s painful but I can weather the storm and it’s not a lot about you know the short-term rental business and I think it will be back it’ll be different but I think it will be back because our economy is so complex you know we had I’ll give you just an example I’m in a kind of suburban-urban area I’m not in a traditional vacation market so it’s gonna be different depending on your market but in my market you know people rent homes because of weddings, graduations, coming into town for surgery and needing to stay for like five days to be in touch with their doctor and the hospital, groups traveling together for conferences, I’m remodeling my house and I need a place to stay for a week or two. So it’s all of these different reasons that people need short and medium stays that I don’t think they’re gonna you know all go away. So I’m still bullish on it. I think unfortunately for some people the people who are highly leveraged and we’re not running you know a very good business this may wipe them out or or they may have to change to long term rental or do something else. I think a lot of the supply is gonna go away and I see it as an opportunity for you know for the people that are standing or the people that want to come in. So it’s tough right now but I’m actually optimistic about what it’s gonna look like going forward.

Buck: If you look at what you’re doing it’s interesting because it’s not quite vacations.

Dave: I think the term that I like to use is short-term rentals because like you were saying vacation rentals you know implies that you know it’s a vacation home somewhere somewhere where people you know either Disneyland or a beach or a mountain or something like that but I think what these platforms what this economy and what Airbnb and Booking.com I think what these platforms have done is they’ve allowed people to travel differently and all of these difference is whether you go into a city for example you know I’ve got four kids, younger kids. If I ever go anywhere I don’t want a hotel room, I want to rent a home because I can put the kids in their different beds, I can put my little one in a crib somewhere and then I still have a kitchen. You can’t do that in a hotel room. So I think short-term rental is kind of a more accurate you know description of the market and then that market is very wide. It can encompass vacations, it can encompass hosting, traveling, nurses, you know it could encompass a lot of different niches of the market.

Buck: Yeah I mean so what kind of you know other things are you hearing from your listeners you know issues with regards to various business activity etc, is there anything that that kind of sticks out that might be worth sharing?

Dave: Well I mean I think some of the stuff we talked about is it’s the idea that in the short term whether people are an employee, health care because you know a lot of my audience is health care, whether people are you know a physician or other health care worker that’s employed I hear of pay cuts right that’s coming down and the other aspect of it is you know even if you’re in private practice like we talked about you know private practice volume in most areas have gone down now is there is there a market there where people can supplement that income yeah there is you know obviously you’d have to take on the risk but I’m also seeing on the flip side you know nurses are in heavy need in New York for example in honor I’m a hearing of offers of you know 10 to 15 grand a week for a nurse to go work in to go work in New York City. So there are these these opportunities for the folks who have seen their income go down obviously that comes with with a certain risk because you’re basically going right into the middle of the fight there but you know dealing with that income reduction I think like you so eloquently put earlier it’s affecting health care workers, it’s affecting employees, it’s affecting the employers, small business owners, it’s affecting everybody which is why you know that’s why I’m so concerned about the economic impact of this alongside you know the physical human impact of you know of having people die.

Buck: I’ll give you a little bit of a sense for you know the effect. So let me give you a little bit personal information in terms of you know how I’ve approached this and and how it’s affecting ours because you know as you may know we have through Wealth Formula through my group we have an Accredited Investor Group which we you know basically what we do is we aggregate money and we buy real estate. It’s for accredited investors so people who make you know $200,000 a year, $300,000 if you’re filing jointly basically any doctor high paid professional usually is considered qualified to invest in these things. Anyway we have this investor club and we buy real estate and mostly it’s real estate of multifamily and we also have a little bit self-storage etc. So all let me tell you how it’s affecting us because they think it’s probably of value not only to my audience but yours but you know the thing that we’re finding is that in the big picture the thesis that we were using as we were approaching you know this most recent crisis was was a good one which was that we’re gonna stick to assets that people needed. People need you know B and C class multifamily real estate. They need storage and those are areas where they typically are not going to just kind of pull their stuff out. So I’m very grateful that that’s the thesis that we stuck to because there was so much pressure even within my investor group to go outside of that little you know niche because it seemed like people were making money everywhere, why shouldn’t we do this, why shouldn’t we do retail, why shouldn’t we buy malls, offices, why shouldn’t we get involved with other business activity. And so my biggest concern was and by gosh I mean I there’s no way I could have predicted this but you know that there wasn’t a sense that we were at the top of the cycle, the longest GDP expansion in US history, you know there’s a lot debt in the economy right now, it just seemed like it had to end at some point. Now I didn’t actually think it was gonna be a hard recession I did think there was gonna be a turn and and so what we were doing is really focusing on things that people needed. Now what’s interesting to me is that how this has affected our multifamily real estate. So our group I mean we we have collectively probably a billion dollars worth of property and we in April our collections across the portfolio in rent has already been low 90s, 90, 91, 92 percent. So I mean that’s great news for us right but I it goes back to the idea that we fundamentally invested in things that people have to have not saying that people aren’t going to have some problems paying rent but there are certainly lots of ways for the government to help out and an unemployment kicks in when you know unemployment insurance kicks in and people start getting their government checks etc and we think that that will help to actually stabilize their multifamily assets even more. And furthermore well we’re because we’re positioned in that you know high C, B minus class area we’re gonna hopefully see some migration or we may see some migration down from the people who are living a little bit you know a little bit higher up in the food chain so to speak. So listen at the end of the day every market is going to feel this but I think we were positioned pretty well and I think we’ll have our challenges but I think compared to some other areas we were in a good pretty good position.

Dave: Yeah that sounds good sounds like that was well thought out having having those particular assets and I think that’s in a market that is expanding and growing I think that’s always kind of you know the risk right like going for that return especially maybe if you know depending on your deal flow to it makes you want to to kind of you know expand if you will but it sounds like you guys were you know kind of had your criteria had had your area of expertise and stuck to it and it won’t be easy, just like for me and my short-term rentals it will not be easy but by structuring it properly having having reserves understanding the market being able to probably pick up assets you know later on not right now but as we kind of start figuring out what’s going on you know it’s unfortunate for the people that that suffer and get hurt but there’s always opportunity to and in these types of market as well.

Buck: Yeah I mean listen bottom line is I think that you learn a lot from these down cycles and I think that you know people no matter what always get in these situations where things have been going well for a decade and there’s you know people don’t believe the party is ever going to end or that there’s ever gonna be that kind of shock to the system again. Well there always is but the people who are going to do well after this are gonna be people who learn from this and say you know what I’m always gonna keep in mind what happened to me in 2020 when you know Covid-19 shut down the entire economy, what did I wish I had done during that period of time you know like I said with we got lucky I think in some respects where we’re in a good a good decent asset class. People need to stay home right now too. We own the homes right we own the place where they live and we’ve also been heavily into you know various types of cash flow life insurance and these were the products that in the Great Depression that survived you know. So I’m not saying that we came out perfect of course there’s always ways to think oh man I wish I was positioned this way or that way but I would just say to everyone think about your situation right now and think about the things where you have exposure it’s still early in this and you’re sitting there wondering like you know I wish I had you know maybe if I had owned some of this or maybe I had exposure did this kind of asset class maybe if I had split my portfolio up a little bit a certain way maybe I would be feeling less scared right now. And if you learn from it and try to you know use strict discipline when times are good to to keep one foot in a safe place I think you will greatly benefit from it because in my opinion actually Dave if you look at debt and you look at demographics and that sort of thing we’re going to come out of this I think I don’t we’re going to come out of this it’s not going to be the Great Depression but you know the 2030s there’s a lot of things that seem to be coming together just right in that decade to make it sound like a lot scarier inherent economic situation so I would start using this as a stress test on you know survivability and try to make some moves to make your your portfolio more resilient.

Dave: Yeah I agree with that and you know additionally what I heard in there is this is a good time to figure out your risk tolerance, right like when everything’s going great everything’s going up everybody everybody thinks they’ve got an aggressive you know appetite aggressive risk tolerance but but now it’s probably a good time for you to read you know and for me to rethink that think about hey you know you know what is my tolerance really and like you said adjust from there and figure it out.

Buck: You have any other questions for me Dave?

Dave: No I think that was good I want to thank you again for you know for doing this I think this was great to talk through these things I think both our audience hopefully you’ll get some nuggets there some benefit from it. You know I owe and just you know with hope I think you know I think we’re gonna get through this I don’t know what that would look like. I think certainly there’s gonna be a big economic price to pay, hopefully the human life price will be as little as possible and you know we’re resilient, we’re gonna learn, and I’m hopeful that you know we’ll be better on the other end.

Buck: Yeah never let a crisis go to waste either you know that’s the other that’s the other lesson is that despite all the horrible human tragedy here you know there is a lot that people can use to to pivot during this period of time be reflective figure out where you are in life what you’re doing right what you’re doing wrong and then go out and seize the day because things are going to get better and it’s sometimes nice to have an opportunity to refocus and from an economic standpoint there are certain things about this particular time that are going to make some people really flourish in the next few years. I’ll leave it at that well listen Dave good talking to you and we will close it out for this week and this is Buck Joffrey with Wealth Formula Podcast along with Dave Draghinas Doctors Unbound signing off.