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245: Back to Basics: Where to Start with Your Financial Plan!

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Catch the full episode: https://www.wealthformula.com/podcast/245-back-to-basics-where-to-start-with-your-financial-plan/

Buck: Welcome back to the show everyone today my guests in Wealth Formula Podcast I’m sure are familiar to you by now they are Christian Allen and Rod Zabriskie of Wealth Formula Banking fame they can be found at wealthformulabanking.com. That’s the site you need to go to if you’re interested in these products. But you know we’re doing this show today because gosh man oh man there is an absolute assault on insurance products from various factions of the financial world you know the we know about the Susie Ormonds we know about the you know Dave Ramsey and all that but even in various niches specifically in the doctor world there seems to be this unusual attack on insurance products that involve investments and I kind of get it. I kind of get it because when I first got out of training there was this like massive misinformation trail that I kind of walked into when people started talking about investments and life insurance as well and you heard people say things like oh gosh no never consider permanent life insurance. You do term and you invest the difference and all this and so I thought that that was for real but then they looked around when I started making real money not just like sorry but you know doctor money and it looked like everybody who was high net worth was using these products and I was like what the heck. So that’s when I did a deeper dive and I started to figure out why okay so I understand it but there’s still so much oh there’s so much noise out there on the opposition creating this sort of sense that somehow these products are nefarious and so on it’s kind of crazy so rather than you know just sit there and listen in quiet desperation the way we have been I offered Christian and Rod an opportunity to come on and you know refute you know a specific blog by a specific well-known blogger we won’t talk about names but I think it’s a good opportunity for us to do that because I think a lot of this kind of same stuff keeps coming back again and again and again. So with that Christian and Rod welcome back to the show.

Christian: Hey thanks thanks for having us man we’re excited to be here. We like insurance so this is a topic we’re happy to discuss.

Buck:  I like it too I like it well okay so you know we’ve been talking about this for a while because these almost feel like these are kind of like directed at us or something like that I don’t know it’s weird and they just keep coming back right like every six months or they just keep coming back they’re very popular. I gotta say I know it’s it’s very strange because it’s there’s a very intel there’s an intensity about this which I don’t quite understand but let’s get into it right because there’s this article that basically this blogger wrote and those 10 points of why you know why basically I don’t remember what the name the article was but that you shouldn’t mix insurance with investing and that was effectively it and we are obviously on the opposite side of the fence there where we believe that it makes a beautiful combination and we’re not alone in this because the the wealthiest people in the world are doing the same so let’s start with this you know this is almost like a david letterman top 10 list but on this it starts with number one when this one cracks me up a little bit but he says the doctors get fooled in this because of lack of financial sophistication he says quote doctors aren’t exactly in the same category as accountants when it comes to the financial world okay so let me just say first of all might be the first problem yeah yeah that would be problem number one when you believe that your accountant is the one who is the sophisticated investor that you should be using as the metric by which you measure the sophistication into the financial world frankly few accountants make that much money and accountants know nothing about investing but anyway I’m gonna let you go lack of financial sophistication Christian, Rod, what do you say to that?

Christian: Okay so I have a lot to say to that buck so the first thing is is it’s just the opposite right like that’s the great irony here is lack of financial sophistication is why people get sold products that aren’t good right so there might be something to that but when you talk about the financial sophistication there’s this really interesting trend that people as they become more prolific as investors they actually start to see the value of it so what’s happening is is this first point you can basically flip it on your head and let me just say this like one of the things that’s challenging about an article like this is he’s putting a really broad he’s just putting a a very broad umbrella over everything and maybe not suggesting and letting people know that these things are can be tailored dramatically in different ways right 

Buck: Rod I don’t think he knows he can’t know he can’t know how these things are structured if he’s writing this article so so that’s go ahead though go ahead.

Christian: Yeah I know I think that’s fair and I and I think based on this and some other other articles I’ve read about he actually had one specifically about infinite banking as well and I think he gets it to to about 80 but then there’s just like this gap that’s missing right and so what ends up happening is you paint this broad brush and you find yourself stating things that are just completely and totally inaccurate as it relates to the way that we do it so almost everything in this list is going to be opposite to the way that we do it he’s going to talk about things like losing liquidity and we’re going to be taught and we obviously keep hitting on things like how incredible the liquidity is then you can invest with it now so a couple things he he may not understand how Wealth Formula banking works to its full extent I would say probably doesn’t right and then in addition to that is undervaluing a lot of the tools that come with it specifically as it relates to high income earners who are in a high tax bracket and who eventually could create a high net worth so there’s a couple of things.

Buck: Yeah all right well let’s move on to the next because there’s 10 of them the next one well okay so mystery mistaking an insurance salesman that would be you guys right for a qualified investment advisor well let me let me let me just start out with this question for you what requirements does a qualified investment advisor have it’s basically a series 65 right yep that’s correct so just for so just for clarity series 65 so my brother who is a pretty you know he he used to run one of the sovereign wealth funds in the middle east he’s a smart guy he used to work it and before that he was at jp morgan in new york and london leverage buyouts but when he first started out and they were a bunch of bankers together and they all had to take the series 65. they had this pool where they would they would see who could get closest to failing the series 65 without failing so I think the score was 72 and so these guys would sit there and try not to do really well they had like literally a pool of money betting so they were trying to hit 72 on the nose okay so apparently if you get the series 65 done you were you know which I think he studied for for about three weeks apparently that’s enough that makes you know everything about everything but anyway go ahead you you know obviously I’ve got my opinions here but I want this is more about you.

Christian: Yeah sure I’m gonna hit on this and rocking it on it too but but the first thing is this is a problem in the financial industry as a whole right there the issue is more of is less about someone’s qualification as it relates to like the credentials that they got from licensing because the the bar for licensing across the board is really low right whether you pass the 65 when I passed the securities tests I suddenly didn’t know more than I did before that right so what’s interesting here is we’re putting all this stock and things like the series 65 the health and life insurance license takes about the same time from a study perspective as the series 65. so here’s the deal here’s the deal you shouldn’t be you when you’re evaluating who to work with and whether to work with someone you want to be looking at things beyond just their licensing and credibility you want to be looking at the track record right you want to hear what people say about them that’s why we’ve done you know that’s why we spent so much time you know getting client testimonials video testimonials things that where people can see that we have a track record of doing it right for a long period of time if you’re relying on licensing as the source for wisdom about whether to work with someone or not you’re just headed down the wrong direction it’s really about who they are.

Buck: Yeah and not only that but let’s let’s be real here okay are you saying then that investment advisors don’t get paid based on you investing no right these are all financial professionals guess what when you are investing in when you’re investing in our syndications and I’m a general partner on there I’m benefiting from that that doesn’t mean that you should be you should be saying that you’re you know you that that somehow you I don’t I don’t have your best interests absolutely I do because if you don’t do well you’re not going to come back and invest in one of my you know opportunities that’s a really important thing for me right so it’s absolute nonsense to look and say somebody’s gonna benefit from your investment your participation and therefore it can’t be good that is the stupidest freaking thing I have ever heard okay go ahead.

Rod: Yeah well and that goes back to another level of this problem and that is that when he’s talking about investing he’s talking about a very very small definition of investing right right because he gets into you know stock brokers and mutual funds and things like that well let me ask this Buck, is he leaving some things out if he’s only talking about the stock market?

Buck: Well he’s not he’s not touching anything that I invest in personally right and I’ll put and I will guarantee you I’ll put my balance sheet up against his any day.

Rod: Yeah so anyway that helps you know define what we’re gonna talk about you know down the road but that 

Christian: I think it’s a really good point right but the reality is is that everybody gets paid and and from my perspective I want people that I work with to get paid and I’m comfortable with that and I think what happens is the the reason that our relationship works out so well is because generally people who are builders they understand the value of getting valuable advice right it’s the same thing when you go to someone like tom will write you go to tom because even though he costs some money he’s going to save you and provide a whole lot more value than he costs and so again it’s just understanding the value proposition and and I would say just make sure you know you’re going to people for their track record not because they have a license.

Buck: And just to be clear one more thing that you can pad commissions and and stuff like that but what Rod and Christian are known for one of the reasons why I’ve you know really aligned myself with them is really maximizing these policies to the point where they can’t be any more they can’t be any more slim on the commission’s side frankly okay next question the belief that doctors need to invest differently than everyone else this is a crazy crazy statement and I quote 95 percent of what we need to do financially is no different from any other middle class investor oh my god if you believe that you were a sophisticated investor because your investments look like 95 of the middle class are you crazy or you’re not sophisticated who I mean who’s using these insurance products well you know these these insurance products are they’re high net worth people not the middle class the life insurance retirement plans see you you can invest like the high net worth individuals the wealthiest people in the world or you can invest like the middle class that’s your choice anyway what’s your takeaway?

Christian: Get this I’m going to throw out a stat Rod and then I’ll let you take it away yeah get this according to the meds the medscape income report they suggest that less than 50 of all physicians have a net worth over a million dollars that’s 50 less than 50 of all these people who are you know making I think they said an average of 237 for a general practitioner and 100 more if you’re if you’re a specialist but the point here is that there’s a lot of physicians out there following the advice of 95 percent of what the world’s doing and they’re getting the same results right they’re getting the results that are leaving america broke by relying on things that just haven’t been working and they just keep doing it and doing it.

Buck: So these shouldn’t look any different than the middle class. Anyway number four they won’t if that’s what they keep following that’s right you’ll end up in the middle class and I don’t think you want to do that I really don’t the shrinking middle class by the way so the next one belief that insurance products provide asset protection benefits not available in other ways I would say this I don’t think that anyone here has ever said that these asset that asset protection that there’s not ways to provide asset protection that don’t involve insurance so I don’t know why there’s this idea that you know anybody’s claiming that they’re not available in any other ways I think the way we have positioned it you guys have talked about it in in terms of it’s it’s a way it’s an additional benefit it’s not you know a reason right I mean that that’s that’s kind of the way I would look at it I don’t think having an additional benefit of asset protection is a bad thing but I don’t think anybody’s doing this because of that but anyway go on.

Christian: I think that’s completely true and and when we talk to people about it it is on the list of benefits and features right and it is a cool one right the fact that you can put money in there and in a lot of states it’s going to be completely protected like that’s a real value if it’s not that way we’ll also show how to do it regardless of whether your state has those kind of benefits associated with them but like you’re saying but that’s not the reason to do it it’s not the reason to jump into them but it sure as heck is a nice feature and benefit that comes with most states.

Buck: And along that line belief that insurance products provide estate planning benefits not available in other ways now in this one I think he’s right if you are in the middle class and you’re you know if that’s the money you got but if you’re high net worth and some of our investors in our group are really ultra high net worth got you know they’re they’re making many of them yeah 20 30 40 50 million net worths and in those situations I’m sorry but there is a lot of things you can do that are pretty unique to insurance I mean that’s just a fact you want to talk about that yeah and this one is the only thing I can assume is just ignorance he doesn’t know he doesn’t know.

Rod: Yeah because estate planning can talk to any estate planning attorney and take away life insurance from from their planning and ask them if that changes the way that they plan give us give us an example of something because you know there’s just so much out there but just just yeah well okay so so two primary things right number one is estate tax planning what better way to plan for estate taxes then to create a situation where where you have a lump sum of cash that comes into the picture when that happens and and again in in the in the course of doing the regular stay planning you put that inside of especially a a an islet an irrevocable trust and it now we create a lump sum of money that lands outside of the estate and the heirs are able to use that to pay the estate taxes so that’s one really easy that’s the low-hanging fruit right but then you think about other like liquidity that’s needed at the time of of the transfer in a state right so recently we’ve been working with somebody who who farms right and wants to continue to build their their kind of farming empire and when when they pass and they’re going to pass all that that land and other hard assets to the next generation liquidity having some level of liquidity is going to be enormously important for them in their estate tax planning or the estate planning excuse me and so so again again the idea that life insurance doesn’t have a role inside of estate planning that that you can’t get in other ways is just

Buck: It’s nonsensical in it it’s completely unsophisticated I’m sorry it just is all right.

Christian: And can I just point out one really quick thing he mentions in there that the estate tax moves it’s up at 23 million but it’s been down like here’s the reality why would you go in plan like like let’s not go in planning and assuming that the that it’s always going to be as high as it is today are going to go higher well that’s a possibility

Buck: It’s going to be lower everybody knows it’s going to be lower it’s probably lower next year.

Rod: Ask your kids would you rather have the the assets that I can build inside of again the 401k or whatever or would you like to have income tax-free money that passes to you it’s completely liquid you can do whatever you need to at the time you know when when you’re settling the estate.

Buck: It’s giving me a headache guys all right next one belief that insurance products provide tax benefits not available in other ways well I’m not sure who said that I mean I know there there are tax benefits and tax benefits well frankly when it comes to tax benefits we aren’t even going to really acknowledge the idea that most people have strategies like ours in in our area but you know I mean insurance is just one more benefit again it goes back to the idea that there is tax advantages to this and tax advantage growth et cetera but it’s not I don’t know why that’s a bad thing I don’t know anyway go on.

Rod: Yeah so here’s here’s a statement that he makes on this one he says the main problem with investing in insurance is you have to quit doing stuff that keeps you from getting insurance at a decent rate and here’s like here’s a conversation that we have every day and that is that we the irony of what we do with Wealth Formula Banking for example is that we don’t pick life insurance because of the sake of the insurance we pick it for the other benefits that you get right and then the insurance benefit is something that comes along as an added benefit so okay so if he’s saying okay go go get a municipal bond because of the tax benefits you get there but would you rather have a municipal bond would you rather have a Wealth Formula Banking policy right.

Buck: Yeah that’s not hard I mean again it not that the tax benefits are like like maybe in every aspect maybe a municipal bond from Detroit or something

Rod: Yeah I mean so anyway it’s so he gives examples you know can you get is there another place where I can put after tax dollars into the to the place it grows tax deferred and comes out tax-free 

Christian: A Roth IRA right we compare like we use the comparison all the time yeah like you’re saying it’s not that it has every benefit of every but it does as a grouping have a very unique grouping of benefits that’s incredibly impactful for wealth building sorry I have a whole time I have a hard time holding my tongue.

Buck: Yeah no I get it I think we hope we all are and that’s why we’re doing this finally because finally the dam’s broken.

Christian: Okay I want to make a quick statement because I think overarching I think this will help right yeah so I mentioned earlier that this that he writes an article specific to infinite banking and in there and I think this goes to your point but there’s just in here a lot of you know not understanding or misinformation or or maybe just like really biased writing but he says this you’re faced with a choice you can put the money in the bank you can invest it or you can buy and be your own bank infinite banking type policy and and so here’s the irony there what we’re suggesting is not that at all we would say you’re faced with a choice but your choice isn’t to put the money in the bank or invest it or buy the policy your choice is to put the money in the bank or you can put it in the policy and invest it right right so there’s a very key element there that’s just not being hit on and that’s the fact that we want to invest and we want to have the policy we’re going to do the two in tandem to optimize it.

Buck: The idea once again for anybody who’s not clear about this is that you can have this money grown at whatever five and a half percent compounding whatever it is at the time right you get you’re you’re fixed and you’ve got your dividends the dividends have been paid out through the civil war through the great depression cetera so although they’re not technically guaranteed that’s pretty guaranteed in my book you can you know you can have that growth that compounding rate growth then you can borrow money from the general ledger of the insurance company while your money continues to grow at five and a half percent and to deploy that money that you’re borrowing at a simple interest so you’ve got a you’ve got a lev you’ve got a arbitrage of compounding versus simple interest that in itself is going to make you money that is what we’ve been pounding over and over and over again it’s not first of all compared to the bank it you know five and a half percent compounding is a hell of a lot better but that’s not what we’re even suggesting we’re just suggesting you take your investments and juice them up if you look at our atm pro forma what was the difference there do you remember offhand it was crazy. Rod do you remember that with and without banking.

Rod: Yeah with what we added on even if we didn’t include the depreciation on top of the investment returns that you got from the from the atm was an additional 32 thousand dollars by the end of the seven years,

Buck: Yeah so 104000 investment which which had I think you know over seven years and 91 two thousand dollar return goes up to like a hundred and twenty thousand okay and that’s real money and all you did was allow your banking policy to help participate in this fund right that’s all you did the pro forma numbers you and so to me that’s the piece that’s completely missing right you if you don’t even we’re talking about strategies and that’s what I don’t think he either doesn’t get or he doesn’t want to acknowledge that these aren’t just investments either they are strategies.

Chistian: So well you know what happens oftentimes from my experience is that there there is a a lot of physicians who get who feel like they get taken because they maybe they buy a policy from the northwestern agent down the street who yeah who’s just selling the basic stuff and like all of a sudden they they look at it five years later and they’re like well this thing’s growing and now all insurance is just garbage right right when in reality it was the the ironic part is that it was the lack of financial sophistication early on that that created that situation so if if a physician if you’re listening to this and you’re wondering about where insurance fits into your world the the first key is to learn about it and understand the basics right so that you don’t end up getting a policy that’s not built for cash value because here’s one of the I we actually agree on a lot of things however like for example we love we love term insurance we instead of saying buy term and invest the difference we’d say buy term and invest with Wealth Formula banking right so there’s there’s some really interesting ways to do but but we’re not that far off it’s just that those elements that we’re off on create this kind of wide gap.

Buck: Right and there’s just this sort of sense that you know it’s my way or the highway which honestly I don’t care if that’s if that’s what you want to do and you want to invest like you know the middle class and do your little index funds and stuff like that and fine that’s not what we do but I think pretending that you understanding that you don’t things that you don’t understand and make and vilifying them and making them sound like they have no value when like I mean look who uses this stuff right I mean look who uses the wealthiest people in the world these are not idiots right so maybe you ought to look a little deeper and maybe you don’t get it maybe you don’t get it anyway next thing here misunderstanding the value of the guarantee okay go ahead.

Christian: Yeah so he says is there a value to guarantee he says of course it seems especially valuable in times of high market volatility or political uncertainty however in nearly every case the buyers overpaying for that guarantee so again this goes back to a lack of understanding specific to how the policies can be designed right so if you come and you work with us he talks about in his other article how an agent getting paid commissions would get you know 50 to percent of the of the total premium and and what he doesn’t realize in that in our case you know eighty percent of the premiums going directly to to paid up additions to cash so it can’t be so it’s it again it’s this broad brush that ends up getting put over it that brings down the value of really every part of the insurance policy but what I can tell you is that people who have been waiting for the right opportunities or saving up money to invest in particularly cash flow real estate things like that they’re really happy when they’ve generated that five percent tax free return that they can move in and out of the policy and of course that especially applies during the times when markets are so volatile but but the important thing to remember here is that because of the way that the policies are structured the way we do it this this is totally and completely FALSE in the sense that the cost is so low over time that you’re actually probably under paying for the guarantee if anything.

Buck: And to that point the next one is about the importance of keeping insurance costs down the if you look at it over a period of time we’ve talked about this before but the the cost over a period of a decade or so what does that come out to?

Rod: Yeah so when we when we play this out again built in the right way the way we do it let’s say let’s take a scenario where the the dividend rate the total guaranteed interest plus the dividend that you’re being paid is six percent right over over the that 10 years 20 years the life of having that policy you’re gonna end up with about a five percent net return okay so the cost is about one percent below whatever the the average total dividend rate was that you earned right.

Buck: What does that come on an average basis points per year?

Christian: So the challenge on that is the whole life is doesn’t it doesn’t work the same way as universal life when we build out these iul’s that we’re using those are going to be about 50 basis points the whole life policies end up being between 50 basis points and a percent in total right.

Buck: So generally speaking we’re talking about 50 basis points 50 basis points up to a one these are not these are not outlandish you know I mean you you would think from the way that we’re reading these things that they are somehow these crazy fees I guarantee you you’re paying if you’ve got mutual funds and stuff like that you’re paying like two or three percent on that stuff yeah you know not 50 bases 50 basis points by the way means a basis point is like one one hundredths of a of a percent so 50 basis points is a fancy way of saying half a half a percent anyway go ahead.

Christian: Well so I think the thing to remember here is that you’re paying for something that’s a value right so it’s kind of silly like cost is a funny thing if I said to you hey you’ve got to pay me 3 but in return you’re going to get 10. right like who cares if I pay three and I get ten if that’s like if so what you’re doing here is if you’re you’re replacing let’s say it costs one percent for a five percent tax-free money-producing machine that’s completely liquid which we’re going to get into next here in a minute so I think that’s an important point like again paying is kind of a silly way to look at it because you’re actually dramatically increasing the return on all of the money.

Buck: Yeah well these are the same these are the same guys who look at syndication and they say well she’s I’m not going to split the returns with the with the general partner I’m not going to do that I’m going to invest on my own and they’re going to expense right and then they buy their own apartment building and they you know they they don’t cash flow at all or they make very little on it in the meantime we had dave steele on a few weeks ago from western wealth capital and they’ve got you know they’ve got a you know typical 70 you know 65 35 equity split at the end which sounds expensive after capital return but guess what investors are making an average of 30 percent annualized return so if you are making that much money why that excuse me why the heck do you care that the guy who is making you that money is making money like why it to me it’s an issue of being very sort of narrow-minded and small right you just can’t have a sense of abundance because you’re so focused on what everybody else is making you can’t focus on the fact that hey you’re gonna make money too it’s not like if that person makes money you don’t make money they’re not taking money away from you they’re making you money where you couldn’t make money and therefore they are making money and so a lot of these like a lot of these people in this community have this like weird sense of like I want to know what’s in your pocket I want to know and I don’t want you to make that much money well good luck because in this world of investing you’re not going to find people that are going to help you make money and do it efficiently do it you know do it over and over again like the way guys of western wealth or whoever if they’re not gonna get paid you’re just not gonna find it and that’s where sophistication really hits the rubber I mean my in my in my view amen anyway and we’re talking about 50 basis points 50 base 50 to 100 basis points and anyway whatever all right next one misunderstanding the importance of keeping investment costs down same thing right same thing he just hits this one over and over again in three different ways and again he’s so worried that somebody else is going to get paid that you know it’s it’s worth three points all right now 

Rod: Sorry just one last comment on that is it again it’s confusing the the whole purpose behind the policy right right just just to make perfectly clear if you haven’t gotten that message already we’re not saying that the insurance policy should be your investment yeah the insurance policy is a vehicle that we use to enhance your investing it’s a strategy it’s a way to enhance stuff that’s the way we look at it all.

Buck: Right the last point misunderstanding the value of liquidity and I just don’t understand I don’t get this one at all 

Christian: I can tell you why this comes up I know exactly so the reason this comes up is because he’s talking again about the traditional policy that you get from new york life or northwestern I probably shouldn’t say the actual names of companies but oh well we’re just letting it out but that’s the problem right like if if that’s if that’s the case you will have a lack of liquidity early on to some extent right now when we build these policies this concept is completely flipped backwards what we do is we create the maximum capacity and the maximum amount of liquidity because the whole idea behind this for us is to invest the policies whereas again he’s saying don’t use this life insurance as an investment on that we actually agree right but but the problem again becomes that now you’re just painting this blanket over everything when in reality you know he’s he’s leading people to miss out on a lot of the key benefits that really would help them you know jump from high income to high net worth.

Buck: Yeah and and I don’t know if I even agree with you on that where you’re saying that you know these products can’t be an investment I mean I think the velocity plus leveraged iul’s and are a great great example of that right if you want to have exposure to the s p 500 do it and then lever it up I mean and have guardrails on it so you can’t lose you know you you can’t lose more than the interest that you’re paying and the debt to me that’s an investment and and I think it has you know tremendous value the other thing is in terms of in terms of whole life the funny thing is with the banking policy that I view that is a great way to to actually keep liquidity so it’s quite the opposite right I mean for me like we were talking about this last you know on an ass buck show recently where someone said well you know should I lever up and refi my house and you know take the equity out and you know invest it and that kind of thing and you know the answer to that was well it sort of depends the math would suggest yes you should because you’re going to do better on your returns than the mortgage but there’s a psychological component to that as well so one thing that we’ve talked about in Wealth Formula Network one approach to that has been well how about instead of leaving that equity in the house as debt equity that you’re not going to invest that makes you a massive target to creditors and to bank foreclosure because you have a lot of equity means more likely to foreclosure why not take that equity and put it somewhere else like a Wealth Formula bank policy and grow that separately at like you know five and a half six percent compounding and have that as a source of liquidity that can’t you know that that’s sort of separate from your house so the irony of it to me is that like we look at it as a source of liquidity for investing or a source of liquidity for you know where where real estate investors generally don’t keep a lot of liquidity it’s so in that regard it’s quite the opposite and I again I’m just scratching my head wondering you know what what the confusion is.

Christian: Cool so here again it comes with it comes when you take a bad experience it just like gets portrayed on everybody and it feels to me like like this author is has has had a bad experience took a took a stance on it and just has never been well now I will say this over time I’ve seen some lightning up on this it used to be really really hard this sounds I’m laughing because it’s pretty bad now right but but it’s gotten a little softer over time believe it or not yeah but I do agree with you buck like that’s a great point we absolutely believe that velocity plus is the most powerful income producing retirement vehicle that exists so I won’t say what I will say is that we generally don’t suggest that you buy like an iul and you just sit there and use the generally speaking we want to take that cash and have it out there and some alternative investments however you made another good point and that is just that for the right people at the right times having your money sitting in the policy earning a five percent tax free return is not a bad place to have it sitting and so even if you only did that you’d be better off at least half of the time than you would and going into mutual.

Buck: The way I see it is that it’s a good place for quote-unquote safe money I mean I mean listen you could you could put money into you know maybe maybe you put it into treasuries or something and what’s the yield on treasuries I mean right not good yeah just doing comparisons right or if you want to have if you want to have liquidity sitting or you know if you have liquidity which makes a lot of sense to have some liquidity yeah you I used to like keep like you know dangerously low levels of liquidity and I’m kind of done with that but you know but having liquidity is a good thing I just think that when you do you got to start to figure out where you’re going to put it and for me banking really makes a lot of sense as a place to let that liquidity grow and you know and and instead of like having it and something like you know treasuries and getting like no return at all maybe these are strong companies right it’s not like it’s not like you know you know your life insurance dividends and guarantees and stuff are not are not exactly unsafe so 

Christian: 180 years of right you know the longest standing companies in the world.

Buck: Right anything else to add fellas?

Christian:  I think you nailed it.

Rod: It’s good yeah.

Buck: Sounds good guys all right well with that I want to thank you for being on the show again Rod and Christian and if you want to learn more about Wealth Formula Banking, Velocity Plus and some of the high net worth stuff that is out there you know premium finance things like that go to wealthformulabanking.com and you know watch those webinars but that’s also where you can get in touch with Rod and Christian. Guys anything else to close it out?

Christian: No. Thank you for having us Buck we always enjoy the ride with you. Appreciate it.

Buck: Sounds good. We’ll be right back.