344: Ask Buck: 11/27/22

Catch the full episode: https://www.wealthformula.com/podcast/344-ask-buck-11-27-22/

Buck: Welcome back to the show, everyone. Let’s get started right away. I think I have to ask you for your pardon here, because I am I’m kind of sick right now. It’s this is like I don’t know what’s going around like this thing. I’m coughing up lung and sneezing and all that stuff. But, you know, when you have kids, it just happens that way, I guess. First question is from Brad Kleeman, who was kind enough to do an audio message here. So let’s go to him first.

Brad: I’m Brad from Georgia. In a recent podcast, I heard that you’re not a fan of oil and gas investments. I just want your take on the details of why, if you’ve had some bad experiences, I know that oil has changed dramatically in the last ten years or so good times, bad times, etc.. Anyway, if you can expand on that, that would be great. Thank you.

Buck: Good question, Brad. You know, where do I start? You know, the. No, listen, my problem is now with oil and gas as a commodity, but private placement specifically in the oil and gas drilling sector. For me has been nothing but bad. So why did I ever do them in the first place? Well, the reason you’re probably looking into it is the tax advantages, 100% bonus depreciation of the investment in the first year typically, and tax mitigation of any actual dividends. Those are the selling points. And on top of that, it’s not just for you know, you can apply it to W-2 income. That’s the only thing that you could apply to W-2 income except for conservation easements, which are, you know, right now are not a particularly good idea to do. But `this has been a huge selling point to oil and gas investments and private placements and drilling for some time, especially in sort of our demographic of high-paid professionals, high-paid W-2 folks and stuff like that.

But there’s a problem. There’s you know, let’s just say this out of three oil and gas investments I have made, I have never come close even getting my capital back. And in my view, there are multiple reasons for this and everyone’s maybe a little bit different, but done in the most honest way from the operator. Drilling for oil and gas is a hit-or-miss situation. Either you hit oil or you don’t. And if you hit oil, it might be a really productive well. Or it could be just like, you know, an average well, whatever. But the problem is that there is this chance that you won’t hit oil at all. So that in itself is massively speculative right there. But beyond the speculation, there are other problems that I have encountered.

Again, the way these things are structured often provides what I would call heads I win, tails you lose type situation for the operators. The operators take significant fees up front, whether or not there’s profitability. And if there is profitability, there’s usually a pretty generous waterfall to the operator. Now, I don’t take away you know, I’m not saying that the operators should not, you know, make money on this. The challenge is that it’s such a speculative space to begin with that effectively you’re paying them to take risk. And, you know, on the upside, they only can really win either way, whether or not they you know, whether or not they hit oil because they’ve made money off the in the first place. So the last point is, I think just, you know, unfortunately, my experience, oil and gas attracts some really unsavory characters. Okay. The field is full of charlatans and flat-out crooks and it goes for oil and gas. You can you know, we want to talk about other types of things that are associated with this energy, space. You know, there was one investment that a lot of people have been talking about, but the CEO of it isn’t. Even if you Google him, he’s not even on Google. It is supposed to be a huge player in oil and gas, so in carbon and all this kind of thing. So I would just be really careful in this space. In the past, I’ve, you know, unfortunately, interviewed some oil and gas people in the space because frankly, a lot of people who listen to this podcast can benefit from those spectacular tax benefits.

But, you know, the only problem is you know, if you don’t get any of your capital back or very little of it, certainly don’t make a profit. You’re probably better off donating the money, do a good cause and take that as a deduction instead. Anyway, I will never do oil and gas again. All right.

Next question. Okay. This one’s from Gregory. This says, “Hi Team, Been following you for a while and love the content you put out. I love the idea of using a line of credit to purchase more cash value whole life insurance and build up net worth that way. But right now it’s hard to get that 2% return difference on HELOC interest rate (which will be over 6% this week) and the insurance dividend (around 5% currently). What are your thoughts on time periods where the cost of financing insurance is more than the insurance dividend?”

So rather than having me answer this question, I thought it might be a good idea to actually have Rod Zabriskie answer this question. So I forwarded to him and he gave us this insider.

Rod: Hi, everyone. Rod Zabriskie here. And I’m going to take this next question from Gregory to Carcass. He asks, Been following you for a while, and I love the content you put out. I love the idea of using a line of credit to purchase more cash, value, whole life insurance, and build that network that way. But right now, it’s hard to get that 2% return difference on here, like interest rates, which will be over 6% this week and the insurance dividend around 5% currently. What are your thoughts on time periods where the cost of financing insurance is more than the insurance dividend?

Great question and a timely question. I think it’s something that a lot of people have been thinking about. If you want a more detailed answer, go back to episode 341 where we got into a lot more detail, talked through the difference in interest rates on really all of the different strategies we’re doing in especially as it relates to what you’re talking about here, which recently we call the wealth accelerator, the strategies that we’re using most frequently inside of the premium finance space.

And the first point to talk about is that the wealth accelerator was built for times like this. Or put another way, we are assuming a 2% average spread across a long period of time and that includes we know there will be times where we have smaller spread than that or even a negative spread, but also other times where it’s a lot higher. And when you stretch that out over a long period of time. So for example, if you look historically, that 2% spread is something that we would have gotten across all 15 year time frames. In other words, there’s never been a 15 year time frame where we had less than a 2% spread. So we feel like that’s a pretty conservative number to use and that’s what we used in our projections.

So but it’s a fair question. What happens in times like now where we do have that kind of negative spread? Interest rates are going up. The market’s been struggling to the extent we’re using, indexed universal life. That kind of exacerbates the problem. First of all, the way the wealth accelerator works is we’re putting our money in in year one and then beginning in year two or later, someone starts financing the funding of that policy, the premiums going into it, timing the market would be great. Getting everything lined up to be perfect would be great. But I think the best way to think of it is that it’s a long term strategy, so trying to get it timed perfectly on the way in is probably unrealistic, but especially because of that year lag. We’re not going to start financing until a year after someone starts the strategy.

So if the idea was to pick the right time to get in, well, we have no idea what’s going to happen in a year. So we could have gotten past the difficult times and interest rates could have dropped. Market could be doing really well. We kind of missed some of that initial good times after the bad and that inevitably comes. My thought is and they’re kind of the reaction of a lot of our clients is to to get in especially right now where there aren’t a lot of deals to be had in the real estate and some of these other things that we were accustomed to investing in. We’ll take those dollars and put it into something like this and do it now while while you have the money sitting there, it’s between deals.

It’s going to sit there for a while. Why not get it to work for you get get started on this strategy and and get the time working for you. The second really important point that I want to bring up is that there are different places where we can hold these loans. In general, we talk about keeping them with a bank, a line of credit with a bank. But at times like this, when interest rates are going up, we can actually have the loan held by the insurance company and we actually get better treatment in a situation like this on the whole life side, because there’s a direct link between the interest for earning and the policy for that portion of the cash value is acting as collateral. There’s a direct link between what we’re earning there and the interest rate that we’re paying on the loan. So interest rates going up, it actually is more advantageous to carry the loan with the insurance company. And then on the other side, there are loan options where they have a maximum loan interest rate that they charge. So again, carry the loan with the bank when the interest rates are lower, but as they’re going up like they are now, then we can carry that loan instead, move that over into the insurance companies loan option and limit the interest rate exposure that we have.

So that is something we’re continually doing is making sure that we’re in the most advantageous loan position. We have relationships with a lot of different banks. And then, like I mentioned, we can carry a loan with the insurance company. So a lot of things that we can do to minimize that risk and that exposure get us past the stormy times and into these times where market recovers, where interest rates drop.

But we’re able to produce more in the policies because of that. I call the interest rate reset. The insurance companies are able to produce longer-term, higher returns based on the higher interest rates than what we see reflected in the loans. So a few thoughts to think about as it relates to that. But again, go check out episode number 341 to get a more in-depth answer on that question.

Buck: Thank you very much for that, Rod Zabriskie. And hopefully that answers your question. GREGORY But again, if you’re interested in learning more, go to World Formula Bank income, watch the webinar or as you, as Rod mentioned, there was an entire episode that really focused on the accelerator program, which you might want to listen to as well. Our next question is from Terry Barker.

Terry says, Hi, Buck. Any thoughts on how to partner with a family member on their first real estate purchase? This will be their first home and probably will become a rental in a few years. I’m picturing we provide the down payment and they pay the mortgage from there. Would you recommend a partnership slash LLC? If so, what should it be? Can we put in the down payment of, say, $25,000 and take all the bonus depreciation? Any other considerations? So, Gerri, let me start again, as I always do, saying I’m not a CPA or an attorney, so I can’t give you tax deduction. Let me tell you what I would be thinking about if I were you.

Before I consulted my CPA and tax attorney, I would be thinking, first of all, for any real estate, I personally would use an LLC that is a partnership in this for tax purposes. So that’s that. However, here is the challenge you have with regard to taking bonus depreciation. If one of the owners of that LLC actually lives in the house, it’s it’s not really a rental anymore.

I mean, that’s something you’re going to probably need to run by your CPA, but, you know, if you’re actually occupying the house and you’re one of the owners, you know, I think maybe that 50% or however percent, you are, maybe that comes out of bonus depreciation. But I don’t think you can take the full depreciation. If you are, you’re basically putting somebody else as equal partner. And then LLC. Now if you bought the house yourself in your name, but the down payment down and rented it out, then of course you could take the bonus depreciation and they would pay rent. Right. But of course in that situation, it sounds like you’re what you’re hoping for is that they have ownership and they wouldn’t have ownership in the House in that situation.

So just thinking out loud, another idea might be, well, you could buy the house and after a period of time sell to your family member. And if they can’t afford it right off, it could you know, you could do seller financing, which could be layered on top of whatever mortgage you have. And then in that case, you know, you could kind of transfer it over that way. And other thought maybe you just buy it and rent it out to them for a few years. And when it becomes a rental, you could gift it to them anyway. Hopefully you have a good CPA who you can run some of these ideas, pass. You know, I’ll tell you, you should run anything I say, pass CPA or tax attorney.

And if you have a good one, they will welcome the ideas. And this is really important. I got to tell you, I can’t tell you how many times I brought up tax strategies and ideas for my own situation that ended up getting implemented, that, you know, that the tax professional ends up taking credit for. But in reality, if even if you have a really good tax advisor, you’re the one who knows your situation the best.

So if you learn about ideas and things, you know, right away, if they apply to you, it’s really important that you engage your tax professional and bring ideas to them. All right.

Next question. Hi, Buck. Can you give an overview of how the bonus depreciation works over the lifecycle of a syndication? If we put it on your card in our basis, a 100 K with say, $80,000 of depreciation, our basis is 20 K three or four years of return of capital distribution totaling 20 K would reduce the basis to zero with the sale of $180,000 a $0 basis. Our gain is 180 K or is it just 100 K? What do the taxes look like?

Okay. So I’m going to kind of try to simplify this. And we use 100% bonus depreciation here in, you know, just for the sake of simplicity and try to use some raw numbers.

And I want to start out again by saying I’m not a tax professional. So anything I say here is not tax advice and it could be wrong. So I’m just going basically on what my understanding is. Obviously, I think about this stuff a lot. So so let’s start with this question is what does it mean if you’re putting $100,000 into a syndication in real estate? Well, if you’re investing in one of the assets through our investor club that means you are contributing to the equity needed for the for the acquisition of that property. Now understand that that equity that you’re putting in, that money that you’re putting in goes towards the down payment. And then there’s the bank that’s actually providing a loan as well.

And that’s where you get your leverage. You’re basically getting leverage kicked into your investment, right. So what does it mean if you are how is it that you’re able to put $100,000 into a given property and potentially get 100% write off for that year given the current tax law? Well, let’s go back to how you get that number. For bonus depreciation. You have to do what’s called a cost segregation analysis. We’ve talked about it before, but basically a cost segregation analysis will divide the property up into personal property and real property, real properties is stuff that, you know, basically you can’t pull out and throw on one personal property, everything else. The the importance of the personal property is that typically the personal property has a different depreciation schedule than real property.

The real property is 27 and a half years. Personal property is five years. However, because of the Trump tax laws in recent years, that personal property five years has been qualified to take all in the first year accelerated as bonus depreciation. Okay, so now let’s think about that. So where do we get to where do we how do we get it to match up with that $100,000 then?

Well, as it turns out, on average, what I’ve noticed and this is not by any means, you know, the same in every case, but usually when you do a cost segregation analysis on real estate and residential real estate in particular, I found that approximate the split comes out approximately to about 30% personal property, 70% real property. Right. And really what we what we want to do is get as much in that personal property bucket as possible so we can get the depreciation. Okay. So you put in 100,000 and you know, that may represent, you know, a total of, you know, $100,000 of equity, but it’s going to be matched by some level of leverage. Right. So say in the whole thing, it’s a 7030 split between personal and so say so, so, so saying of course, knowing the whole property, we said that there is a 70% real property and 30% personal property and the personal property is getting accelerated all at once in the first year.

So what is what is your typical leverage on these assets? Well, it’s about, again, 70% LTV. So that 30% you’re putting down is offset by the 30% of the asset price acquisition price that you are getting bonus depreciation on. So that’s how you end up with a 100% bonus depreciation sometimes on these investments. So your cost basis is not zero by any means. I’m going to have to do this all over again. So this is an interesting question, and I think it gets a little complicated by answering it. But the way your question is laid out, let’s just try to use some more simple numbers to try to illustrate this. And before I begin that again, remember, I am not a tax professional.

And so I’m basically working through the numbers like you are. So just think of me as a guy who knows a thing about a thing or two and and is just kind of working through stuff with you. But just as a guy here is not a CPA, you should run this stuff by your own CPA or tax other other type of tax adviser, tax attorney, whatever.

Okay. But let’s let’s go to your question. I would say you invest $100,000 in a syndication. What is that represent? It represents a portion of the equity needed to acquire the property. That’s what it represents. Doesn’t represent, you know, all equity. Right? Like it’s it’s you or it is it does represent equity, but it doesn’t really reflect fact what you are purchasing because most real estate syndications use leverage.

Let’s assume 70% LTV. In this case, that means 30% down in the bank gives a loan for the rest. So your $100,000 goes towards that 30% down. And then you are getting the benefit of of the bank loans. You’re buying more of this property with your money than just, you know, the the equity that you’re putting in. You’re also leveraging you’re also using the bank for leverage to own more of this property. Right? So bottom line is your 100 K represents equity, but you also benefit from the leverage. Now, many have seen in the past few years, key ones come back and show 100% bonus depreciation and that ends up completely offsetting an investment. So how is that actually happening mechanically? Again, I’m going to use some basic numbers, you know, round numbers.

And let’s remember that bonus depreciation in real estate depends on something called a cost segregation analysis. And what the study does is separate the property into real property and personal property. Real property. It’s the stuff you can pull out and throw out in the front lawn. And it depreciates at 27 and a half years. Personal property is the rest and that has a depreciation schedule of five years.

Now, however, since the Trump tax changes, we’ve been able to take all five years of the personal property depreciation in the first year, 100% of it. Of course, that phases out in the next few years. It goes 80% next year and then 60, etc.. Now, as it turns out, residential real estate ends up being about on average about 30% personal property and 70% real property.

Now, that’s not some sort of fact. I’m just telling you, I have done a lot of cost segregation analysis and a lot of properties, and it usually ends up being approximately 30% personal property and 70% real property. So why is that important? So in this example, you are depreciating 30% of the total acquisition price. However, since you and the other investors only brought 30% of the acquisition price to the table in the form of equity, your investment essentially washes out with depreciation.

Okay, so after a period of time, the property gets sold and you end up the money that you end up. Hopefully you’ve made a profit, you’re going to have money come out that will be principal depreciation, recapture the and long term capital gains. So say that $100,000 that you invested turned into 200,000. If you invested the whole thing back into another syndication with the same leverage and car segregation assumptions, you would wipe out all the gains again, right?

That is what we call the golden hamster wheel. Demand these phrase. Of course, this will be a little less gold as bonus depreciation phases out, but it will extremely still be extremely effective long term for tax mitigation, even with lower numbers. Now, let’s say you did not reinvest that money and take advantage of the hamster wheel. What would your tax liability look like?

Well, since you took 30% of depreciation initially, your cost basis would not be zero. It would be $70,000. Right. You invested 100,000, you took 30% is depreciation. It is. So your cost basis was $70,000. That would leave you with that would be then your your your principal return. Then you would have $30,000 in depreciation recapture which is taxed at 25% and then $100,000 taxed at long term capital gains.

Right. So there is notably that the recapture is less than ordinary income tax. So even if you didn’t reinvest your money, you would have an advantage, a tax advantage, just through tax arbitrage, you’re paying recapture of 25% instead of, you know, whatever your tax rate is, it’s probably closer to 35% or more. And so that’s the trade that you’re making.

So either way it comes out, you come out ahead. However, obviously, if you can reinvest that money, that is a big advantage. Now, I should point out, too, that because the $70,000 in this case was principal, if you reinvest that again, even with 80% depreciation, you’re going to end up wiping pretty much all of your taxable gains and recapture. Again, wash all that out. Still, even with 80% bonus depreciation anyway.

Okay. Let’s move on to the next question. Hopefully that wasn’t too confusing. If it was go listen, do it again was kind of a mouthful.

Your next question is from Evan. He is interested in your thoughts on the situation where someone is invested in syndications using debt that had an interest rate of about 3.5%. And now the interest rate is ticking up to almost seven and a half percent. Do you think it makes sense to stay the course and just wait for rates to tick back down or to start paying some of the loan? Oh man. Your problem is one that is facing businesses and real estate investors everywhere. Right? So I’m not going to tell you what to do, but rather let me just kind of help with a framework for you to think about if you wish.

If we go back to the fundamentals of leverage, as long as your return is higher than the interest rate, you will amplify your gains rate. If your interest rate exceeds your return, then it will amplify your losses. It’s that simple. So the bottom line is your returns are going to have to be higher than the interest rate in order for you not to lose, not to lose money, and then actually to amplify your money.

So I guess this really all, you know, really all depends on how you see your investment panning out. And, you know, it’s going to require you to take some calculated risk. And think about that. I will say that personally, I have decided that right now it’s appropriate for me to deleverage a little bit wherever possible, I think, because of volatile interest rates, you know, it makes me nervous.

So anything that is certainly I have eliminated anything that in my personal control that has any floating rates to it, which wasn’t much to begin with, but I’ve gotten rid of it. And frankly, unless you’re borrowing at a fixed rate for 5 to 10 years, I would personally be hesitant to leverage much with any kind of floating rate at this point.

No one predicted rates to go up as fast as they have it. It’s really been unprecedented given the fact that the effects of interest rate hikes usually don’t really show up in the economy for six months, or the Fed has just gone absolutely crazy bonkers raising rates. I think hopefully it will do what they’re hoping it does, which is to squash inflation, but it is going to be painful. I anticipate a recession coming. So I would say, you know, while you pay off a little bit of your floating debt if you decide to do so. And I probably would, frankly, I do anticipate a recession coming. So, you know, you might be in a good position to buy some distressed assets and make up for any haircut you took from the past.

Okay. Next question from William. This is Buck. How are you? Crazy times. Yes, indeed, William, your crazy times and a few questions. Best place to park your cash you know of. Well, that’s a hard question. Again, it’s an opinion, but I certainly do like the idea of Wealth Formula Banking and related life insurance retirement plans. I think the track record there speaks for itself.

You know, these companies have been around for, you know, 100 years if it continued to perform through the Great Depression and they’ve continued to perform through hyperinflation of the eighties, it is a you know, it’s something that’s been very reliable. Right. And also in addition to that, of course, you could also do real estate with, you know, lower leverage.

You know, some that seems, you know, much more conservative than maybe in the past. Now is not the time, in my opinion, to leverage to the hilt. So so I think, you know, some of those types of things. I think also if you’re interested in investing, not just preservation, I think looking at businesses that have some component of recession proof nature to them is very useful. And you may see some of that coming down in our investment group soon for Infinite Banking. He says he has another question uses for infinite banking is the goal never to pay off the loan? I wouldn’t say that the goal is not to pay off the loan, but that is certainly the way that you avoid ever paying taxes on the money you borrow. Right. Because the whole concept is that when you that you’re basically taking these loans, you know, and you’re paying them back a little bit, you’re paying the loan payments, but presumably you’re going to have you’re not taking this out as income. You’re taking it out as loans. Right. And that’s why it’s tax-free income to you. And when you die, the policy itself will then pay off your loans in your heirs won’t have to pay any taxes on the insurance proceeds or anything else.

So that’s the idea. So is it the goal to never pay after? Yeah. I mean, I guess I guess the kind of is in that regard, I mean, that’s what the idea is is that like you’re just borrowing and borrowing and paying back some, but you’re more borrowing than paying back. And then ultimately you die and the policy pays and pays out to your heirs. And some of whatever’s left in debt gets wiped out by the policy. Policy proceeds. Okay. Okay. And then there’s another component to this question is also, is infinite banking in infinite banking, is it wise to take a loan out for the sole purpose, to use the loan to over fund the policy building cash value in the policy with the goal of never paying the loan off? I was at an investment conference and several speakers on investment on Infinite Banking mentioned this. They did see insurance companies and agents do hate it. Wondering your input on how to max out the infinite banking. Well, that’s a little confusing to me, but what you’re saying, it sounds like what you’ve heard might be a combination of a few different strategies.

00:41:24:15 – 00:41:58:01

Speaker 2

So there and that we’ve talked about in it through the through Rod and Christian. So well for real banking is what we call welfare. Real banking is really over funded whole life, infinite banking. Right. The idea here is that you use that to leverage from not to necessarily borrow and to over fund, but rather to over fund and borrow from to amplify your returns on other investments.

So that’s very important. It’s a very different concept in what you’re talking about. I think what you’re talking about is the use of premium finance, right? Like fine. Getting someone to finance the premium to over fund and that’s typically used in the context of indexed universal life plans. Basically, these policies are policies that track the S&P 500. They may have a cap and a floor. You know, they may say, you know, you can participate up into up to 10%, but we won’t and we won’t let you go below 1% or zero or something like that. In other words, there’s a limit on your gains. And there’s also a limit on your ability to lose money.

So what you can do and what I think is a very actually brilliant strategy is to leverage these policies so that you can amplify any returns you get. So even if you get 10% growth with a 10% cap, the leverage will make your return significantly higher than that. It’s no different from leverage in real estate in that sense.

If you think about it, if you had a cap rate of ten and then took a loan on it, you’d probably end up with a significantly higher return, maybe closer to, you know, 30% or so. So the idea in bottom line is I think there’s a couple of different concepts here that might be getting entangled. But I think that the borrowing premium finance is is is really probably related more to the index universal policies.

And we have this Rod and Chris have a few different policy structures that use this strategy. The one I like best we’ve talked about on the show recently called the Wealth Accelerator. You can learn all about that by going to wealthformulabanking.com. But again, just to summarize Wealth Formula Banking itself whole life. Typically what we do there over fund and use it as leverage for amplifying investments.

And the other way to do it is to actually use premium finance and this is typically seen in index universal plans, although it could be in whole life as well. And ultimately you’re but in this situation, you’re not you’re not trying to like borrow money and deploy into investments the way you are with Wealth Formula Banking. It kind of wouldn’t make sense, right? I think what you’re trying do here is over fund and grow at a leveraged rate relative to the S&P 500 or whatever the fixed is, even if it was on whole life, people don’t usually do whole life here because this is probably a little bit more aggressive. You’re trying to grow your money faster. So most of the time you’ll see premium finance in the context of indexed universal life plans. Anyway, hopefully makes sense, but if it doesn’t go to, well, Formula Bank income, if you watch the wealth formula banking webinar there and then compare it to the wealth accelerator, I think it’ll make you’ll see the difference.

All right. Last question. I believe for this show is from Supreeth.

He says Hi Buck, I’d like to ask a question regarding asset protection. You recommend Individual LLC for each property worth more than 500,000. And in Massachusetts, do you recommend any asset protection advisor? Okay. Well, let me start by saying that I’m not a CPA or an attorney. How many times have I said this in the show? Right. But so any sort of tax legal advice here is for me is not kosher.

So I’m not going to give you advice. That said, I generally don’t like myself to have multiple properties in any one LLC. You know, the idea behind the LLC is to protect it from your personal liability. So once there are multiple properties within the LLC, they are subject to each other’s liability. So I think the question you need to ask yourself is, you know, what assets are you comfortable having in the same LLC in? And part of that decision making process may be how much money it costs or how expensive the property is. But generally speaking, I would say that the cost of having another LLC will be what will be a nice insurance plan to make sure that liability of one property doesn’t hit the other way. So again, the way I do things is that I have a separate entity for every actual property, you know, each individual property that I own.

And I should differentiate this concept between, you know, when you have LLC is for real property, own like houses or your own apartment buildings. That’s different from when you invest into a limited partnership. Syndications. Because remember, when you invest into a limited partnership syndication, you don’t have liability from the investment, you have no liability. That’s why it’s called a limited liability partnership. So because of this, personally, I use one holding company to invest into, you know, multiple syndications. I would suggest you go back to some of our Asset Protection Protection podcast to to learn more. And I think specifically with Doug Waddell, you ask for a specific tax advisor. I’m I’m a big fan of Doug. Doug’s my asset attorney. You can find a webinar that he did I think on asset protection at wealthformula.com.

All right. Well, let’s take a break. We’ll be right back.